Do you like the kick?

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BunkerBlaster
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Do you like the kick?

Post by BunkerBlaster » 30 Aug 2012, 14:18

I've joined many games and have not once seen another host kick for the Zzz. I've seen games go on for an hour being played at a snails pace. So do you prefer to play a very slow game or do you prefer the host kick the player with the Zzz?

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Andrie
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by Andrie » 31 Aug 2012, 10:45

I don't like being kicked, so I won let him be kicked except if you cant select stuff or play! :wink:
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Iluvalar
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by Iluvalar » 31 Aug 2012, 18:28

Kick ! and if he is not in your team offer a rehost.

Andrie : But the other 6 player expect you to offer them a good game. If the ZZz was fun, they would add it to the skirmish game :P .
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by Andrie » 31 Aug 2012, 19:18

Your going to make yourself hated :!: :P
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by BunkerBlaster » 01 Sep 2012, 07:38

Andrie wrote:Your going to make yourself hated :!: :P
Disliked would be a better term. Players soon find out every host has to kick in open games. In most cases the host has no choice.

The kick is a method for resolving some problems that exist and if those problems are resolved then the kick is not needed. Did you know the kick was actually removed from the game at one time? The kick should not be considered a permanent method, it's a work around. The kick is most likely the number one thing that displeases players about this game.

There are two different kicks. One is the lobby kick before the game is launched where the host is looking for players with good pings. The second kick available to the host is after the game is actually being played. In this thread I am only talking about the second kick that is available while the game is being played.

It's a loaded question because either way it's not going to make everyone happy. Kicking the player that is slowing down the game makes the teams unbalanced because one team just lost a player and I'm sure the player that got kicked is not a happy camper either. Some players may even think the host is cheating if the player that is kicked is not on the hosts team (not everyone speaks English). On the other hand I fear some players are not enjoying the slow game play because the host does not kick and may think the game always plays that way in eight or ten player games, which is not true. The problem can be resolved by the proper selection of players and also the map selection. If all players joined IRC then I wouldn't be asking this question because the host could easily choose players that don't slow down the game and the problem would be avoided. Players that slow down the game may not do so if they find a different host or play a different map. (thru irc of course otherwise it's guesswork for most)

The in game kick was needed in version 2.3.9 for cheaters and for those with high latency after the game started. With version 3.1 the only reason I can think of why the kick would be needed is for the Zzz (high latency or poor rendering). I was going to put this in suggestions then decided to put it here because it pertains to gameplay.

What is my opinion? Slow game play drives me absolutely crazy but I am leaning toward asking the devs to remove the kick for four reasons. 1) I have already made some players upset on a couple occasions for using the kick. 2) Is because I am trying to discourage rage quitting in my games due to the fact it creates uneven teams. So if I enforce the no rage quitting in my games then I should not kick the player that is slowing down the game either. It's kind of like the phrase "practice what you preach". 3) Is because games should be hosted from IRC to avoid this problem. If players don't wish to join the irc channel then in essence they like slow gameplay when it arises. (which seems to be often in open games) 4) When I ban for latency it's temporary and I let the players back in multiple times at a later date depending on the frequency of occurrences, each time there is an occurrence the frequency goes up and so does the length of time until I test the connection again. I do not wish to do this with slow computers or old graphic cards and many households have more than one computer. So the player with the slow graphic card is going to have to tell me they upgraded or they are playing from a different computer and the only way they can do that is on IRC because I don't have time to deal with this in the game.

So the question of "do you like the kick" is really asking if the in game kick from the alliance menu has a value that exceeds it's negatives or is it a work around that is no longer needed. I think almost everyone hates the kick so much they would rather allow the player slowing down the game to remain in the game. If that's the case we should ask the developers to remove the kick from the alliance menu before 3.1 is released.

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Andrie
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by Andrie » 01 Sep 2012, 09:18

I din't know that the host can kick someone if the game is started, and can you tell me how to do it!
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by vexed » 03 Sep 2012, 01:21

BunkerBlaster wrote: So the question of "do you like the kick" is really asking if the in game kick from the alliance menu has a value that exceeds it's negatives or is it a work around that is no longer needed. I think almost everyone hates the kick so much they would rather allow the player slowing down the game to remain in the game. If that's the case we should ask the developers to remove the kick from the alliance menu before 3.1 is released.
There are many reasons that the host would want to kick someone, while in the game.
Lag is one, people acting like idiots is another, cheaters (and yes, it still is possible to cheat in 3.1) and the list goes on.
The alternative is that the host gets PO'ed and ends the game for everyone, and it is debatable if that is a good thing or not.
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by Apep » 19 Jan 2013, 01:02

I would like it if I knew how to do it with a MacBook Trackpad. Does anyone know how I would go about doing this? Right clicking is two fingers while left clicking is one. You can't hit both at the same time from my knowledge.

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Rommel
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Re: Do you like the kick?

Post by Rommel » 19 Jan 2013, 18:11

When I host games the only time I kick is if a player completely lags out, this freezes the game for everyone. If I should need to do this I always kick a member of the other team as well to balance - of course I make this decision apparent to all the players, basically asking if they want to do this or rehost. Most times I found that we have continued as the time investment can be substantial and it sucks to waste all time you have already played (although to me the nature of WZ means there is never time wasted / always learning :).

The main thing is that you should monitor pings properly before the game starts, if someone has a ping that is spiking over 500 and averaging over 300 (some would say 200) then I normally ask the person politely to leave (explaining why). Normally people leave before needing to be asked as they can see their ping is high. Always be careful here though, as joining players will spike all pings - you should wait a moment after a new player has joined before making a decision, also peoples pings bounce around a bit so it might only be a momentary ping.. one sure sign is if you see the asterix where their ping should be, if this is flicking on and off a lot with a high ping they should be asked to leave.

The kick could however be made more "democratic", not so much in the lobby, but more so in game to negate any accusations of cheating from the host (ie kicking players to gain advantage). You could have like a voting system for this.

Oh and just to add, I think a lot of problems with ping are due to the way hosting a game works, ie hosting on a players client computer as opposed to using using a dedicated server - many times it is the host's slow connection that causes the lag. In some ways I feel that maybe a priority of development should be getting the ability to host games on a dedicated server - wz has great multisystem support so it seems the obvious evolution would be to having the ability to host games on a dedicated server.
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