Master balance was changed silenly, so i suggest...

[NoQ]

Unit price and hp are not only based on their bodies and propulsions, but also on weapons. Decreasing hover hp by 38% doesn't make hovered units 38% weaker. I'd also like to remind you that even when we don't count weapons, it's not "150=>93", but rather "250=>193" (because the 150% is added to 100% of the bodies, not multiplied), so this change is around 23% actually.

Even though heavily exaggerated, the post by ODDity is the first sensible statement i've heard so far.

[Iluvalar]

I understand his reaction.

The TAG he is talking about was also mounted on a python htrack anyway. So there is no change there.

I also understand that python and htrack was our "favorites". But I doubt it was because of the color or the shape of them, it was a matter of their stats being better than the other choices around.

ODDity, I agree with what you feel for the TAG, the auto-balance detect them as 30% stronger than they should. But the whole autobalance was implying a lot more changes, and I needed to cherry pick the weapons that were the worst to fix.The TAC and the TAG are probably the 2 worst thing I left behind.

When you look at the propulsion, take good care at checking carefully the weapon modifiers. the htracks and the tracks have much better resistance against all weapons.

While i'm here complaining about my own balance ^^ here's the remaining :
*The early bunkers are obvioulsy stronger without any rational reason
*All the defensive strucutures tend to decay real fast after that point.
*The mini rocket array should not be that strong !! But because of a targeting bug, if you are down the cliff it's a beast and if you are up the cliff, it's useless.
*I'm aware the rockets will suffer more from the heavy body nerf than any other weapon set...

[Cyp]

*The mini rocket array should not be that strong !! But because of a targeting bug, if you are down the cliff it's a beast and if you are up the cliff, it's useless.

Huh? Aren't we talking about master?

[ODDity]

I refuse these changes.

lluvalar stick to your own "auto balance" crappy version of warzone and stop messing with the rest of us.

You dont play Master version, you dont know what's best.

[vexed]

I happen to agree that these changes should have never been put in master.
Chalk it up to miscommunication.

The plan should have been something like this, someone does a balance proposal, then once they think they are finished, explain the rational for each of the changes.
Then we take that info to the community, and get feedback on all the changes, and here is where people can argue why it is or why it isn't a good change.
Once everyone agrees, then those would be pushed into master.
If we can't get everyone to agree, then the devs have final arbitration rights and we will pick what we think will be best.

Hope that makes it more clear.

[lav_coyote25]

so this wasnt sanctioned then? no wonder there is such a warm fuzzy feeling on the forums lately... lets get this backed up ASAP. please do not let this take place again. the community has the right to say yea or nay. lets keep it there. thanks.

[NoQ]

The TAG he is talking about was also mounted on a python htrack anyway.

The armor decrease still favors machineguns, even with the same body.

[Iluvalar]

*The mini rocket array should not be that strong !! But because of a targeting bug, if you are down the cliff it's a beast and if you are up the cliff, it's useless.

Huh? Aren't we talking about master?

hmmm, we'll need testing then.. MRA are usable in 2.3.9 even when they shoot everywhere... So folks, the timing we need to check is at ROFmk2 with the first sensor upgrade. The strategy suited is the hit and run.

I somewhat agree with vexed on that one, I should have had the time to tell the rationnal behind those changes. I hope i'll have the time to do so... However I talked with a lot of people on IRC and in game, and I confirm many players were looking forward for that body change. Please do not throw all in the garbage just because one or two players are surprised.

To NoQ : But tracks are better suited for lighter bodies. At least, if you take advantage of the weapon modifier vs mg.

[Reg312]

Iluvalar, why noy all changes are listed
VTOL Thermite Bomb Bay (Bomb4-VTOL-HvyINC)
Incendiary Damage 200 => 169

VTOL Plasmite Bomb Bay (Bomb5-VTOL-Plasmite)
Incendiary Damage 200 => 173

[Reg312]

If someone intrested, below full list of changes made in weapons.txt. we have new weapon "Transporter Heavy Machinegun"

Code: Select all

*** weapons.txt ***
 Changed item: Nexus Link Turret [SpyTurret01]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level All	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:400	new value: 205
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:1600	new value: 820
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:200	new value: 561
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:0	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage'	old value:0	new value: 1
 Changed item: Plasmite Flamer [PlasmiteFlamer]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level Three	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:80	new value: 154
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:400	new value: 769
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints'	old value:10	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:75	new value: 25
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:63	new value: 40
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:0	new value: 4
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage'	old value:63	new value: 40
 Changed item: Bombard [Mortar2Mk1]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level All	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:200	new value: 169
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:1000	new value: 843
	-Field Name: 'hitPoints'	old value:1	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints'	old value:25	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:5	new value: 43
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:120	new value: 129
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:80	new value: 86
 Changed item: Incendiary Mortar [Mortar-Incenediary]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level Three	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:150	new value: 314
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:750	new value: 1567
	-Field Name: 'hitPoints'	old value:1	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints'	old value:20	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:5	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:90	new value: 48
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:70	new value: 39
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage'	old value:30	new value: 19
 New item:  [MG3-TRANS]
	-Field Name: 'Code	new value: MG3-TRANS
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel	new value: Level All
	-Field Name: 'Build Power	new value: 50
	-Field Name: 'Build Points	new value: 250
	-Field Name: 'Weight	new value: 600
	-Field Name: 'hitPoints	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints	new value: 15
	-Field Name: 'HP	new value: 150
	-Field Name: 'GfxFile	new value: GNMMG1.PIE
	-Field Name: 'MountGfx	new value: TRMMG.PIE
	-Field Name: 'MuzzleGfx	new value: FXMgnVic.PIE
	-Field Name: 'FlightGfx	new value: FXTracer.PIE
	-Field Name: 'HitGfx	new value: FXMETHIT.PIE
	-Field Name: 'MissGfx	new value: FXDIRTsp.PIE
	-Field Name: 'WaterGfx	new value: FXSSplsh.PIE
	-Field Name: 'TrailGfx	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Short Range	new value: 640
	-Field Name: 'Long Range	new value: 960
	-Field Name: 'Short hit chance	new value: 75
	-Field Name: 'Long hit chance	new value: 50
	-Field Name: 'Firepause (10=1s)	new value: 7
	-Field Name: 'Explosions	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Rounds per salvo	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Reload time	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Damage	new value: 18
	-Field Name: 'Splash radius	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Splash chance	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary time (10=1s)	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Radius	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'directLife	new value: 10
	-Field Name: 'radiusLife	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'flightSpeed	new value: 1500
	-Field Name: 'indirectHeight	new value: 20
	-Field Name: 'fireOnMove	new value: YES
	-Field Name: 'Damage Type(Thermal or kinetic)	new value: KINETIC
	-Field Name: 'weaponSubClass	new value: MACHINE GUN
	-Field Name: 'movement	new value: DIRECT
	-Field Name: 'Weapon Class	new value: ANTI PERSONNEL
	-Field Name: 'rotate	new value: 180
	-Field Name: 'maxElevation	new value: 90
	-Field Name: 'minElevation	new value: -90
	-Field Name: 'facePlayer	new value: YES
	-Field Name: 'faceInFlight	new value: NO
	-Field Name: 'recoilValue	new value: 20
	-Field Name: 'minRange	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'LightWorld	new value: NO
	-Field Name: 'effectSize	new value: 150
	-Field Name: 'surfaceToAir	new value: 100
	-Field Name: 'Attack runs (for VTOL)	new value: 15
	-Field Name: 'designable	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'penetrate	new value: 0
	-Field Name: 'Research Points	new value: 
 Changed item: Incendiary Howitzer [Howitzer-Incenediary]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level Two-Three	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:250	new value: 522
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:1000	new value: 2085
	-Field Name: 'hitPoints'	old value:1	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints'	old value:10	new value: 2
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:10	new value: 3
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:200	new value: 102
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:200	new value: 102
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage'	old value:60	new value: 34
 Changed item: Inferno [Flame2]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level All	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:80	new value: 140
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:400	new value: 698
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints'	old value:10	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:75	new value: 25
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:40	new value: 29
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:0	new value: 3
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage'	old value:40	new value: 29
 Changed item: EMP Cannon [EMP-Cannon]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level All	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:200	new value: 41
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:800	new value: 161
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints'	old value:20	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:500	new value: 1906
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:70	new value: 143
 Changed item: VTOL Plasmite Bomb Bay [Bomb5-VTOL-Plasmite]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level Three	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:225	new value: 303
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:1000	new value: 1345
	-Field Name: 'systemPoints'	old value:10	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:600	new value: 438
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:1000	new value: 864
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:1000	new value: 864
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage'	old value:200	new value: 173
 Changed item: VTOL Thermite Bomb Bay [Bomb4-VTOL-HvyINC]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level Two-Three	new value: 10
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:225	new value: 322
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:1000	new value: 1431
	-Field Name: 'hitPoints'	old value:1	new value: 10
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:360	new value: 218
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:400	new value: 336
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:0	new value: 1
	-Field Name: 'Incendiary Damage'	old value:200	new value: 169
 Changed item: VTOL Cluster Bomb Bay [Bomb1-VTOL-LtHE]
	-Field Name: 'TechLevel'	old value:Level Two-Three	new value: 10
	-Field Name: 'Build Power'	old value:150	new value: 72
	-Field Name: 'Build Points'	old value:600	new value: 288
	-Field Name: 'hitPoints'	old value:1	new value: 10
	-Field Name: 'HP'	old value:420	new value: 782
	-Field Name: 'Damage'	old value:120	new value: 169
	-Field Name: 'Splash damage'	old value:72	new value: 99

[NoQ]

Anyway, if we simply autobalance machineguns (or maybe even just assault guns) as well, everybody will be happy ... right?

[Per]

I have reverted the changes for now, pending further discussion.

[vexed]

Note, new forum section is located here to discuss balance related changes.

viewforum.php?f=42