counter flamer in early game

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Shadow Wolf TJC, nice one!

One point you seem to be missing: splash damage of mortars and, most importantly, penetrating damage of flamers. The DPS of flamers is directly multiplied by the amount of targets it's able to hit with one shot; that's exactly what makes them deadly, especially in borg vs. borg battles. This parameter is rather complicated though, for it depends on micromanagement and force size.

P.S. Obviously, main purpose of grenadiers is defense/building harassment.

Good point. I forgot to mention that splash damage is another possible advantage that mortars have over machineguns. Also, wouldn't penetrating damage matter less if units would just stay out of reach of the flamers and pelt them from afar? Although, it might be a problem for trucks and engineers that are trying to repair defenses that are taking damage from flamers (assuming that the flamer's penetrating effect also applies for hardpoints).

Also:

you really have no idea what you're talking about. if you want to contest that statement, don't post here with an effusive, pretentious wall of text, that'd just be rude. get on irc and play against me, my handle is preternatural. you can type and type all you want but it's all hot air when i beat you again and again.

I'd be interested in a match with you later on, though right now, I need to practice.

[NoQ]

Also, wouldn't penetrating damage matter less if units would just stay out of reach of the flamers and pelt them from afar?

Sounds like a *lot* of micro to me. If mgs simply stay out of reach, then flamer damage doesn't matter at all; you probably talk about *scattering* mg army, but it will require a micromanagement hell (commanding every single borg).

Well, anyway, even keeping yourself out of range is not that easy if the map is not huge and absolutely plain.

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Also, wouldn't penetrating damage matter less if units would just stay out of reach of the flamers and pelt them from afar?

Sounds like a *lot* of micro to me. If mgs simply stay out of reach, then flamer damage doesn't matter at all; you probably talk about *scattering* mg army, but it will require a micromanagement hell (commanding every single borg).

Well, anyway, even keeping yourself out of range is not that easy if the map is not huge and absolutely plain.

It could actually take as little micromanagement as moving your whole machinegunner force away from the flamer cyborgs (as if they were retreating from battle), though you might not bring the full might of your machinegunners upon the flamer cyborgs if you micromanage them like that. And yeah, if the flamer cyborgs manage to corner your machinegunners, then the machinegunners are pretty much screwed.

[NoQ]

One more point. I'm still having a situation of a mass vs. mass fight in my mind. If you want to utilize the full DPS of your mg borgs, you effectively can't keep away from the enemy (otherwise only the front line will actually shoot). And, of course, you might need to utilize it before they corner you at your base.

[Zarel]

One thing that confuses me.

All non-heavy borgs move at the same speed, right? So any borg besides Grenadier should be able to kite flamer borgs perfectly...

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

One thing that confuses me.

All non-heavy borgs move at the same speed, right? So any borg besides Grenadier should be able to kite flamer borgs perfectly...

According to this, this, and this, Combat Engineers and Cyborg Mechanics seem to be slower, and Assault Gunners seem to be faster, than ordinary cyborgs. Is this an error?

[NoQ]

Hmm, according to this link, all cyborgs s are slower than trucks I don't understand a thing

[Ezio]

cyborgs get faster with engine upgrades

on small and rocky maps it's pretty hard to control them especially when they're already inside sea of flame