Queueing research orders

[Zarel]

The next suggestion would be to make it conditional when a branch in the tree becomes available. Good way to kill a great game.

Sigh. There's a difference between removing strategy and removing repetitiveness. This suggestion does the latter. If we automatically selected which topics go on the queue, that would be horrible and break this, but fortunately that is not the suggestion.

About the overlapping due to shared researching, it is indeed a major problem.

No, it's not. My research overhaul will simply prevent two people from researching the same thing, unless one of them forces it with Alt+click or something.

[XboxJosh]

Maybe if an ally is already researching it, it'll go on to the next in the queue, right?

[Olrox]

About the overlapping due to shared researching, it is indeed a major problem.

No, it's not. My research overhaul will simply prevent two people from researching the same thing, unless one of them forces it with Alt+click or something.

Hmm, I see. Then this method of avoiding simultaneous research will work with the whole team's queues and "techs available in the future" display? That's good, I hope it is doable enough.

The next suggestion would be to make it conditional when a branch in the tree becomes available. Good way to kill a great game.

There's a difference between removing strategy and removing repetitiveness.

Even AI-assisted option selecting systems are acceptable, to reduce outright repetitiveness, IMO. I mean, there are things that all the players will do, one time or another, several times during a game, and one of those things is indeed selecting research topics. Anyone can select research topics, I think - it isn't something that you get with experience or something, it's just clicking on the icons.

What is being propposed is that the player could do those N clicks in succession instead of having to wait and get back to the research window everytime, and as Zarel stated, this reduces repetitive things that anyone can make. People that don't know how to plan research paths will still have their own disadvantages at this, and people who don't know the tech tree will still have to waste time with trial-and-error to reach their wanted items.

I mean - even reducing the management gaps between new/inexperienced/old/experienced players is something interesting. Games where someone at "level 9" can easily kill someone on "level 7" are really boring IMO, because you are simply narrowing the diversity of balanced situations. Take, for example, a big example, WoW. A skilled lvl 33 player can kill a lvl 40 player without herculean efforts if he knows how to play with his character's class, and knows footwork, and the other one isn't that good.

There are people how can play warzone very well, but just aren't used to the interface or controls yet. And there are people who can play it for 5 years and aren't good - but know exactly when and where to click. Why not make the competition fair? If you've got the skills and are experienced and old in the game, you'll surely win even if someone can research just as fast as you do. Because you know where to deploy which units, hopefully, then - for isntance.

~Olrox

[BunkerBlaster]

(Btw, "multi-tasking" is a myth neurologically speaking that is also a great source of "productive effectiveness degradation"....)

Well said. And this is what makes Warzone challenging and fun. If a player does not have any brain farts during game the outcome will be significantly better.

Anyone can select research topics, I think - it isn't something that you get with experience or something, it's just clicking on the icons.

Really? Its just clicking the icons? And all this time I thought it was about how well you can multitask by defending your base, controlling your army and researching without being distracted.

There are people how can play warzone very well, but just aren't used to the interface or controls yet. And there are people who can play it for 5 years and aren't good - but know exactly when and where to click. Why not make the competition fair? If you've got the skills and are experienced and old in the game, you'll surely win even if someone can research just as fast as you do. Because you know where to deploy which units, hopefully, then - for isntance.

Seems to me your saying "lets remove the brainpower required to play this game to make it fair for those that are lacking the skills". This is NOT a valid reason IMO. New players need to learn the tree and or print it out. Then they need to learn to play and multitask as I stated above. Take the multitasking out of the game by queuing the research and you just took the fun out of this game, even if its only the mk upgrades.

My research overhaul will simply prevent two people from researching the same thing, unless one of them forces it with Alt+click or something.

I see you already made up your mind(s). Be nice if you can make a EASY MODE with research queue and a VETERAN MODE without the research queue.
Or better yet implement this as a mod instead.

[Zarel]

Really? Its just clicking the icons? And all this time I thought it was about how well you can multitask by defending your base, controlling your army and researching without being distracted.

Really; you quote someone saying multitasking is impossible as evidence that multitasking is the point of the game?

Seems to me your saying "lets remove the brainpower required to play this game to make it fair for those that are lacking the skills". This is NOT a valid reason IMO. New players need to learn the tree and or print it out. Then they need to learn to play and multitask as I stated above. Take the multitasking out of the game by queuing the research and you just took the fun out of this game, even if its only the mk upgrades.

With a research queue, new players would still need to learn the tree.

There is still plenty of multitasking involved with defending, attacking, manufacturing, building, designing, and updating research queues as new technology becomes unlocked.

You do realize we've been able to queue production, building, and other orders, right? Heck, we can infinite-queue production! How does that make you feel?

I see you already made up your mind(s). Be nice if you can make a EASY MODE with research queue and a VETERAN MODE without the research queue.

We already have a veteran mode; it's called not using queues.

Or better yet implement this as a mod instead.

Warzone does not support interface modding to a significant extent. Furthermore, mods are for niche things, not for things we want most users to have access to.

[Roux Le Corps]

but this has the makings of a flame war so before we get too frustrated lets tally up the points here...

Zarel says (in my own words) that this would further reduce unnecessary micromanagement,
While Bunker buster is saying that removing this micromanagement would remove a key aspect of the game...

Sorry bunker buster but i have to agree, a research cue would be good, ONLY if the research available after current research does not bring up whats available AFTER that research.
By this i mean if you have the first machine gun researching ~and i know its instant but for arguments sake lets just go with this~ you see the next machine gun and the tower, but if you cue the next turret upgrade it DOES NOT show the one after that until it has begun research...

Bunker buster does have a point though, but instead of an outright no, you would have to be very careful how you implement this or it might set the stage for many problems, the main i'm thinking of is bugs... that might be hard to completely iron out considering the vast amount of research available...

well thanks for reading this post an i hope that this doesn't get too out of hand!

[Desolator4u]

Maybe it's because it's late, but i really am failing to fully understand some of these posts. On the subject of queuing research, I think it would be a very useful feature. It shouldn't allow you to view and queue the new technologies that will be available for research after the current one is completed (as I think Roux Le Corps just said) but it should at least be able to help with limiting some repetitiveness, such as researching upgrades. As in, after gaining the Lancer, you can start queuing the research for the different upgrades, like rate of fire, damage and accuracy in the order you like, so you don't have to spread them across different Research Centers, or re-opening the Research tab every time one of them have been researched.

Nuff Respeck
~Des

[Roux Le Corps]

no i said you could see and cue the research that branches off the current thing being researched, but only the first few branches, if you cue a research not yet available (but see able) the next thing after does not appear... sorry for the confusion

[Desolator4u]

no i said you could see and cue the research that branches off the current thing being researched, but only the first few branches, if you cue a research not yet available (but see able) the next thing after does not appear... sorry for the confusion

why am i having such a hard time? lol i get you now though, but i feel that it should work with everything that is available in the current research list, but shouldn't be able to show what will be available next, after researching a particular technology. that may be taking a bit too much from the researching process, which is one of the highlights of our beloved RTS.

Nuff Respeck
~Des

[Olrox]

One of the great things about warzone is that you have a large tchnology tree so you can make up for what your opponents seem to be using the most. Now, I don't think anyone would simply set up research for the whole game and not react to his enemies, otherwise the guy's gonna have a bad time because he didn't balance his forces adequately. Also, the player will still have to manage research at several times because of the power demands of other sectors, building and manufacturing. And, even if the next technology is shown in a limitless pattern, the player would still be at disadvantage if he doesn't know the techs well, because he'll have to spend a lot of time with trial-and-error until he can combine the right prereqs (because most of the technologies aren't reached by just researching a single topic over and over again, they are a combination of different topics, that usually have different prereqs themselves, etc.).

What would indeed be too much is having a "select end product and the game fills the gap between current tech and the target tech for you" - that's not good.

The proposed system is interesting because the player would have the option to separate time to focus on research or commanding his units more effectively - it's time optimization, we are letting the players focus on what's the greatest emphasis of Warzone's genre (which isn't ordinary RTS, I hope you all already know that): Controlling units, be them trucks or sensor turrets or tank divisions or VTOL wings or mobie artillery or infantry.

I think that, even if it might bring out bugs, it is worthy trying. If we all don't do anything because of possible bugs, we'd stick to whatever we have now, and wouldn't have anything new at all - not even graphical improvements, because those can also bring forth some bugs...

And this is not a flame war - Just because someone says something and someone else disagrees, that isn't enough to make one - there is indeed the need of good thinking about this, and new arguments are always welcome: but all of them are subject to being accepted or proved wrong. If anyone's not ready to hear a big, fat "NO", then a world-wide forum isn't the right place, seriously (I myself got used to that and almost failed in the procedure, twice).

~Olrox