It's time to disable rush

Other talk that doesn't fit elsewhere.
This is for General Discussion, not General chat.
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zoid
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by zoid »

Samowar wrote: Of course it still makes sense to fetch control of outlying oil wells early, but you can't really attack the enemy base without doing some research and building some defenses.
1. You can do research and buid oil wells at the same time.
2. Atacking does not require defenses.
Samowar
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by Samowar »

zoid wrote:2. Atacking does not require defenses.
No, but surviving after a suicidal attack wave long enough to prepare the next attack wave does.
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Zarel
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by Zarel »

Samowar wrote:No, but surviving after a suicidal attack wave long enough to prepare the next attack wave does.
No, it doesn't. If it turns out to look suicidal, just retreat your army, and your army can still defend against enemy invaders. Even if you misjudge and get your army destroyed, you can build defenses (or rebuild your army) while that occurs, as well as immediately afterwards (if your opponent has enough mobiles for a counterattack, it's still going to take at least a minute for them to get to your base, and much more than that on many maps).
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Revelo
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by Revelo »

Zarel wrote: No, it doesn't. If it turns out to look suicidal, just retreat your army, and your army can still defend against enemy invaders. Even if you misjudge and get your army destroyed, you can build defenses (or rebuild your army) while that occurs, as well as immediately afterwards (if your opponent has enough mobiles for a counterattack, it's still going to take at least a minute for them to get to your base, and much more than that on many maps).
It still surprises me how many people attack, realize that their attack won't be enough but instead decide to stay and deal out as much damage as they can to hopefully cripple their enemy and then having to waste half an hour rebuilding their force and trying again, either the enemy has enough units left to counter attack or they would have repaired everything.
Read my review of Warzone 2100 here!
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devastator
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by devastator »

Ok,imagine map(there are many examples) where there are no any nature walls.All sides can be atacked.Building defenses is crazy,you MUST build units.And this is a perfect condition for rush.And most rushers today are not suicidal.WZ is rushgame now...that's why i'm trying to tell you that strong rebalance is needed.
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Zarel
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by Zarel »

devastator wrote:Ok,imagine map(there are many examples) where there are no any nature walls.All sides can be atacked.Building defenses is crazy,you MUST build units.And this is a perfect condition for rush.And most rushers today are not suicidal.WZ is rushgame now...that's why i'm trying to tell you that strong rebalance is needed.
So? Don't play one of those maps, if you want natural walls. Building defenses still isn't crazy, you just space them out, and start reinforcing once you see the direction enemy units are coming in. Of course T1 No Bases is a bit rushy, but play on a different game mode or map if you don't like that.
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devastator
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by devastator »

So the only way is to rush yourself or ro play another configurations.Rush is unsopable advantage =P
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by guciomir »

Devastotor, do you want AI to sit and do nothing while you destroy it? If you make mistakes (like not trying to get new oil derics) , the AI will try to use it to its advantage. Almost everybody is trying to convince you that attacking is a normal part of the game.
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devastator
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by devastator »

XDDDDDD
AI?Do you think I would talk all this time about stupid AI? xD
I'm talking about players.I hate those noobs that don't know anything but call their machingun rushes TACTIC.They call themselves the best players and are really stupid on big maps.Atack is part of the game,but it must be not the most important part at the start i think.
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by Thyranim »

what about the anti-rush option implemented in supreme commander?
there you have a fixed area to move, unless the anti-rush-counter gets to zero...

as option to activate/deactivate ?
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devastator
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by devastator »

Yes,that was one of my ideas.
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by Samowar »

devastator wrote:machingun rushes
What exactly are you talking about? MG Tower rush (driving your trucks into the enemy base and start spamming MG towers there) or MG Viper rush? In the last case the enemy needs time to build factory, HQ and some vipers. You can do the same things in the same time, it's what you probably would do either way. Then the enemy needs time to send the vipers to your base. This gives you time to build more vipers plus perhaps even some MG towers - which means you can defeat the enemy rush without slowing down the development of your base. You don't have to rush yourself (although you could counter-rush after you defeat the enemy rush), you just have to build some units early.

If you play against human players, you can just all agree on "no attacks in the first 5 minutes". No need for a technical measure.
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devastator
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by devastator »

Well,when we agreed to not atack till 15th minute,on 8th minute this guy destroyed me with vipers.And what i mean exactly is everything you mensioned.And preparing factory,facility and HQ is rushing yourself!I thibk we would start imaging best way for desabling now.And configuring "middle bases" is not perfect idea,players need freedom at any configuration.
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Re: It's time to disable rush

Post by Samowar »

devastator wrote:Well,when we agreed to not atack till 15th minute,on 8th minute this guy destroyed me with vipers.
Well... there's one solution for this: don't play against assholes who can't keep an agreement.
And preparing factory,facility and HQ is rushing yourself!
No, rushing means "attacking as soon as you can". You don't have to do that, in fact, you get an advantage for sitting back and letting the enemy rush come in.

However, one "clean" way (i.e. without any artificial "no-rush-boundaries" and the like) to "disable" early attacks would be to decrease the starting power on "low power level". Then you'd have to get your power station up, before you can build vipers in significant quantities.