Fog modes

Discuss the future of Warzone 2100 with us.

What do you prefer?

Keep the options as they are
2
8%
New combined fog mode
24
92%
 
Total votes: 26

Per
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Fog modes

Post by Per » 16 Oct 2011, 19:46

We currently have two fog modes: Distance fog (red mist), and the horribly misnamed 'fog of war' option that makes most of the map dark at the beginning of the game.

I suppose that most people play with the hidden map option for campaign (it is the default, and it is nice to see where you have been), and with distance fog for skirmish (since hiding it makes little sense as you eventually learn how the maps look).

Some games have a combined mode, where you can see the entire map, but areas that you have not visited are darker than other areas. I think this is a better solution. (It also makes more sense, as I suppose the Project had old satellite imagery of the whole planet at their disposal.)

I would like to change our current options to the combined mode, removing the option, since this makes the code and our interface simpler. Please vote if you would like this.

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Re: Fog modes

Post by Zarel » 16 Oct 2011, 19:59

For reference, StarCraft II has four stages of darkness: Visible, explored (dark), unexplored (darker), and hidden (black). Maps start out hidden in the campaign and unexplored in multiplayer. I've always liked how they did that, although the darkness difference between explored and unexplored is pretty subtle and easy to miss.

Most other RTSes just have three stages (leaving out unexplored), and always start maps off either explored or hidden.

I believe fog of war is an important feature to have for a campaign, and many players are used to it from practically every other RTS in existence.

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Re: Fog modes

Post by Terminator » 16 Oct 2011, 20:26

Usually I use distance fog in MP games. But yea as was mentioned - fog of war in singleplayer - better, but Mixed fog+distace -will be best. Voted for new one.(long time ago I've suggested to make this new fog mode, seems like its time to make it true =) )
Last edited by Terminator on 17 Oct 2011, 08:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Per
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Re: Fog modes

Post by Per » 16 Oct 2011, 23:59

Zarel wrote:For reference, StarCraft II has four stages of darkness: Visible, explored (dark), unexplored (darker), and hidden (black). Maps start out hidden in the campaign and unexplored in multiplayer. I've always liked how they did that, although the darkness difference between explored and unexplored is pretty subtle and easy to miss.
I'm pretty sure at least some maps in Sc2 campaign does not have hidden map...? Maybe they use it when appropriate. Which is fine by me. We can keep unexplored==hidden as a scripted option for campaign stuff. As long as I get to remove the GUI options, I'm happy.

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Re: Fog modes

Post by Zarel » 17 Oct 2011, 01:55

Per wrote:I'm pretty sure at least some maps in Sc2 campaign does not have hidden map...? Maybe they use it when appropriate. Which is fine by me. We can keep unexplored==hidden as a scripted option for campaign stuff. As long as I get to remove the GUI options, I'm happy.
Hmm. Do you plan on using StarCraft II's 3-stage thing? If so, that sounds perfect, although I'm worried about how we're going to make 3 darkness levels look distinct. 100%, 50%, and 25% brightness? It's more important for "visible" and "explored" to look different than for "explored" and "unexplored" to look different, I think.

And, yes, I don't think anyone will miss those GUI options. :)

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Re: Fog modes

Post by NoQ » 17 Oct 2011, 07:42

As long as I get to remove the GUI options, I'm happy.
And, yes, I don't think anyone will miss those GUI options.
+1 (:

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Re: Fog modes

Post by Per » 17 Oct 2011, 07:43

@Zarel: Yes, that's the plan.

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Re: Fog modes

Post by Reg312 » 17 Oct 2011, 08:23

i voted for combine fog
I suggest you make combined fog which show location of oil resource in the MP games
player who exactly remember oil locations has great advantage
why i need preview maps in god mode every time when i want play a game? only when i played one map 5 - 10 times i remember where oil placed
i think this is one of reasons why lobby players prefer games with oil at bases

also i dont understand why developers think that start game screen is so complex and cannot have more options
may be you are programming WZ for mobile devices? in standard resolutions WZ screen have much free space

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Re: Fog modes

Post by NoQ » 17 Oct 2011, 11:09

Oils are already shown on map preview in master.
also i dont understand why developers think that start game screen is so complex and cannot have more options
It's not about interface complexity for me (i'm no developer though); it's rather about polishing a solid set of game rules instead of multiple variations, which is good for nice competitive multiplayer to emerge.

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Re: Fog modes

Post by Reg312 » 17 Oct 2011, 11:34

NoQ wrote:Oils are already shown on map preview in master.
nice, my request obsolete
then i suggest another fog option: play with fully opened map
in some cases players need to see what happening in game. and for some noobs it can be nice path to learn game
when good players attack noobs early then these noobs can only think "its cheaters"
NoQ wrote: It's not about interface complexity for me (i'm no developer though); it's rather about polishing a solid set of game rules instead of multiple variations, which is good for nice competitive multiplayer to emerge.
WZ lobby server need much more players for more nice competitive multiplayer.
and i think its nice that some players can be good only on one options&maps while on another options these players cant play well because they use one plan instead thinking :)

sorry for small offtopic

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Re: Fog modes

Post by cybersphinx » 17 Oct 2011, 13:23

Reg312 wrote:also i dont understand why developers think that start game screen is so complex and cannot have more options
Why developers hate options in general: Every option splits the used code path, which leads a. to more complex code, and b. to each path getting tested less. So, if an option can be removed, it makes sense to do so (the question of course is how you determine that, so you don't annoy half your userbase).
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Re: Fog modes

Post by MaNGusT » 17 Oct 2011, 19:29

just take the best from the rts hits like sc2 and I believe we will be happy enough. :-)
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Re: Fog modes

Post by Zarel » 18 Oct 2011, 05:11

Even disregarding programming difficulty, there are plenty of reasons why options are bad:

Every option that doesn't matter makes it harder for users to find the options that do matter, and every option is a different thing users can disagree on when trying to create a game.

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Re: Fog modes

Post by Reg312 » 18 Oct 2011, 11:18

Zarel wrote:Even disregarding programming difficulty, there are plenty of reasons why options are bad:

Every option that doesn't matter makes it harder for users to find the options that do matter, and every option is a different thing users can disagree on when trying to create a game.
good reasons but im still disagree :)
i can say ppl like WZ because they can design units, res tech, make unlimited defenses, use various combinations of anything
so WZ-people are curious people and more options is good for such people
why we need make many new maps with ulimited oil, better make option for this
every week i see new high-oil map created by newbies

anyway all what WZ really need is good netcode
all other features like graphics, new sensors, fogs, options is secondary stuff

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Re: Fog modes

Post by NoQ » 18 Oct 2011, 13:24

why we need make many new maps with ulimited oil, better make option for this
+1 actually.

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