Shouldn't assault cannon make light cannon obsolete ?

[Bethrezen]

hi all

I'm curious shouldn't the assault cannon make the light cannon obsolete ? the same way that the hyper velocity cannon made the medium cannon obsolete ?

this being the case it begs the question if the assault cannon is supposed to be an upgraded light cannon then why is its damage shot for shot weaker than the light cannon ?

the light cannon has a damage rating of 84 per shot where the assault cannon has a damage rating of 78 per shot surely this must be a mistake shouldnt that be the other way round ? aka the assault cannon being the new weapon has the higher damage and the light cannon being the older weapon has the weaker damage

i mean i understand that you have to take in to account the increased rate of fire which will increase its over all dps even though each individual shot is weaker but conceptually this just seems wrong i would expect the assault cannon to make the light cannon obsolete as its better in almost every reguard

[NoQ]

the same way that the hyper velocity cannon made the medium cannon obsolete

oh really?

the assault cannon is supposed to be an upgraded light cannon

who said this?

i would expect the assault cannon to make the light cannon obsolete as its better in almost every reguard

weight?

Also, i'm not sure where did you get your stats, because /w/ says something totally different.

[Bethrezen]

oh really?

yeah as soon as i got the hyper velocity cannon the medium cannon vanish from the unit design window because the hyper velocity cannon replaced it as its better

who said this?

no one but its obvious enough when you compare the 2 in game that the assault cannon is basically just an improved light cannon with more body points faster rate of fire better range and i would assume being that its the new version of the light cannon better damage as well which is why I'm querying it because it seems like a mistake

I'm not sure where did you get your stats, because /w/ says something totally different.

in game for example

light cannon tracks and python body

power required 232
body points 3000
Range 7.5
Damage 84
Rate of fire 21
weight 1000

Assault Cannon tracks and python body
power required 357
body points 3750
Range 8.0
Damage 78
Rate of fire 42
weight 7500

as you will see the assault cannon is better in almost every way yes its marginally more expensive but that's to be expected its a more advanced turret and a bit heaver but again that's to be expected as it's more heavily armored plus its got like 4 barrels not just 1

what I'm curious about though is why the damage rating is lower than the light cannon i would think both would have the same damage or possibly that the assault cannon would have slightly more being that its a more advance turret that's firing its shots with more force which explains the marginally improved range over the light cannon

i mean so far as i can tell the Assault cannon is just a rapid fire light cannon unless I'm miss understanding its intended purpose that being the case i would expect the assault gun to make the light cannon obsolete as its better in almost every way save for the slight increase to weight and cost

i understand that when you factor in rate of fire the over all dps of the assault is in fact higher than the light cannon as http://guide.wz2100.net/w/ shows but shot for shot the assault cannon seems to be weaker which again is why I'm querying its damage rating because it seems like a mistake so is this is intended or is it in fact a mistake that no one noticed ?

[NoQ]

yeah as soon as i got the hyper velocity cannon the medium cannon vanish from the unit design window because the hyper velocity cannon replaced it as its better

Just checked. It doesn't replace medium cannon, and it isn't totally better. What game version you are using? Do you realize that the weapon list has multiple pages?

light cannon tracks and python body

power required 232
body points 3000
Range 7.5
Damage 84
Rate of fire 21
weight 1000

Assault Cannon tracks and python body
power required 357
body points 3750
Range 8.0
Damage 78
Rate of fire 42
weight 7500

Just checked. They have equal damage, and upgrades can't change this. I have no idea where do you get those stats from. Did you get those stats at a single moment of the game, or maybe they had different upgrades in them?

[Bethrezen]

Just checked. It doesn't replace medium cannon,

oh yes it does here are some screen shots to prove it as you will see i have only 4 cannons light cannon, assault cannon, hyper velocity cannon, heavy cannon

and it isn't totally better

if that's the case then some one screwed up because so far as i can tell yes it is because as you saw from the screen shots above its been replaced by the hyper velocity cannon

What game version you are using?

that would be the latest stable 2.3.7

Do you realize that the weapon list has multiple pages?

yup and i checked all 3 tabs and its not listed because as i said its been replaced by the hyper velocity cannon as far as i can tell

Just checked. They have equal damage, and upgrades can't change this. I have no idea where do you get those stats from. Did you get those stats at a single moment of the game, or maybe they had different upgrades in them?

oh no they don't not according to the screen shots above take a look at the one for the light cannon and the assault cannon and you will see that in fact the damaged is just was i said it was 84 for the light cannon and 78 for the assault cannon

now maybe this anomaly is because I'm only at the end of the beta campaign and so there are more cannon upgrades to get which i don't have yet or maybe someone forgot to update this for the campaign but either way looks like something somewhere is a miss if you are seeing something different to me

i can attach my save file if ya like if that would help

[Jorzi]

campaign balance differs quite a bit from multiplayer/skirmish...
however, since light cannon is a light weapon and assault cannon is a medium weapon, I think they can coexist.

[NoQ]

oh my, that was campaign?.. -.-
sorry then.

[Iluvalar]

light cannon tracks and python body

power required 232
body points 3000
Range 7.5
Damage 84
Rate of fire 21
weight 1000

Assault Cannon tracks and python body
power required 357
body points 3750
Range 8.0
Damage 78
Rate of fire 42
weight 7500

against an optimal armor of 56 (python on Dense Composite Alloys Mk3) the AC damage is 26 and lc is 32 (123%). then there is the power issu : not only you'll get the 1.5 LC for each AC, but you'l get a "ganging effect" from it they'll look like 1.85 units as long as they can fire together. For a total of : 1.23*1.85= 227% stronger which close (in that condition) the 200%(rof)*125%(HP)=250% of the AC. So no... the LC is not obsolete even if we dont look at speed (since LC is quite lighter).

[Bethrezen]

campaign balance differs quite a bit from multiplayer/skirmish...
however, since light cannon is a light weapon and assault cannon is a medium weapon, I think they can coexist.

how can the assault cannon be considered a medium weapon with such weak firepower the assault cannon is no medium weapon not by a long shot at least not in campaign mode multiplayer/skirmish... maybe

also why have 2 different balances doesn't that just making extra work where there need not be any ?

against an optimal armor of 56 (python on Dense Composite Alloys Mk3) the AC damage is 26 and lc is 32 (123%). then there is the power issu : not only you'll get the 1.5 LC for each AC, but you'll get a "ganging effect" from it they'll look like 1.85 units as long as they can fire together. For a total of : 1.23*1.85= 227% stronger which close (in that condition) the 200%(rof)*125%(HP)=250% of the AC. So no... the LC is not obsolete even if we dont look at speed (since LC is quite lighter).

say what now ? didn't understand a word of that ?

[Iluvalar]

^^ I said since the damage in this game is substracted up to 1/3. A really small change in raw damage stat can do a lot more damage if pitted against the good armor value. Here the optimal armor for LC vs HVC would be a python body with Dense Composite Alloys Mk3.

Ok forget everything i said... just don't use light cannon if you don't like them ^^ .

[Brisingr]

I had always seen that the HVC replaces the light cannon and the Assault cannon replaces the medium cannon (but that because they "Look" like they replace them )

But when ever I research the HVC I usually use it to replace the light cannon and still use the medium and heavy cannon (hardly in MP though as most of the games on MP are Very high oil maps like NTW)