Twin AG, get rid of it.

[3drts]

IMO, the Twin AG is overpowered. I never liked when the "Twin" weapons were added.
For a while, there was even a Twin heavy cannon, thank god thats gone.
The twin weapons basically just make the single weapon useless, though the twin mg is a special case due to being really early game, and a number of upgrades being needed before you can get it.
The twin twin AG is basically available for research right after the single weapon is completed.
And its basically nothing more than a 50% damage upgrade, which IMO is overpowered (no other weapon has an upgrade this powerful, or this late in its tech tree, given that damage increases as a % of total go down with each upgrade for other weapons)
AG was potent enough, and I think AC should have been buffed, rather than adding a Twin AC.
Twin AG was ok back when most of the MG upgrades were single player only....
now....

Lets look at the Twin AG vs the AG, and the Assault cannon vs the Twin Assault Cannon

AG vs TwAG
HP: 250 vs 300
DPS: 151 vs 242
Weight: 600 vs 600
Cost: $100 vs 100

Don't those last two stats seem like they need a change?
Twin AG also lets you skip a few research topics and get the twin AG hardpoint without the rotary MG bunker and HMG hardpoint, which you need to get the normal Assault gun hardpoint (which you dont need for Twin AG hardpoint.)

Lets look at the AC vs Twin AC
HP: 300 vs 500
DPS: 103 vs 168
Weight: 2500 vs 5000
Cost: $150 vs 250

There is ZERO disadvantage to the Twin AG, compared to the AG, it is simply better in every aspect.
Personally, I think Twin AGs are over powered, and assault cannons are under powered (though not as bad as in 1.00-1.10.

IMO, Assault gun is already useful- a good step up over the HMG, and Twin AG is overpowered.
I wouldn't mind if the bulky looking twin AG is just dropped completely.

As for the Twin AC, given how useless the AC is, I would only drop it if the AC was buffed up.

[NoQ]

The twin twin AG is basically available for research right after the single weapon is completed.

It requires a lot more "fundamental research" (Neural Synapse Research Brain). People who get single AG quickly usually get twin AG much later.

Still, i tend to agree (:

[Zarel]

Yeah, Twin Heavy Cannon was a 1.11 thing - it was especially ridiculous considering Heavy Cannon was the most popular weapon in 1.10.

As for AG/TAG, I didn't realize they had the same weight and price. I'll increase the weight/price of the TAG, and nerf the AG a bit and move it earlier game. I'll fix the hardpoint research stuff, too.

I really dislike how MGs went:

MG - TMG - HMG - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - AG - TAG

And I've been delaying the HMG as well, to hopefully narrow that huge gap there.

As for twin weapons in general - I never had a problem with them. They're strong, but that's the point. Twin weapons should do around 1.5x damage (a bit more after armor), and they're balanced out by higher weight and price.

Next version is slated to be 3.0, so expect to wait a long time for the next rebalance.

SNEAK PREVIEW: Cyclone will also be back in 3.0.

[Verin]

I do believe that Mg's are used too much. Im not sure what did this but people just research mg's now.

[WarTux]

I do believe that Mg's are used too much. Im not sure what did this but people just research mg's now.

Not true! MGs are powerful early-game but when your opponent gets tracked units, you'd better build rockets!

Unfortunately heavy body, tracked units aren't as popular as they should be. For some reason pyton-halftrack units are all the rage.

[effigy]

I think MG has been brought up in several balance threads. It's the tech of choice in 1v1 and low oil due to economics. TwinAG Mantis Track have become a staple of mine when games get to T3 (paired with Tank Killers or Seraph in team games).

[Tenoh]

I love twin weapons and i really miss twin cannon! It's cause of ppl like this haters this game is getting boring!

[Verin]

I do believe that Mg's are used too much. Im not sure what did this but people just research mg's now.

Not true! MGs are powerful early-game but when your opponent gets tracked units, you'd better build rockets!

Unfortunately heavy body, tracked units aren't as popular as they should be. For some reason pyton-halftrack units are all the rage.

ICORRECTO! I just played a game today and i was duking it out with a MG guy, Rockets reduce your HP too much compared to the MG, and they fire less often making it harder to attack groups - all your guys will fire on 1 tank when only 3 shots were neded to kill it.

[3drts]

I rarely use python half tracks, scorpion tracks are significantly cheaper, and build faster, and are nearly as good in a fight (MG vs MG).
The speed difference isn't much, the tech difference isnt that much.
Scorpions pack in tighter than pythons as well- good for MG battles, bad for heavy cannon/high splash weapon battles.

[NoQ]

I really dislike how MGs went:

MG - TMG - HMG - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - AG - TAG

Hmm, let me guess. THMG is missing?

[alto1234]

ICORRECTO! I just played a game today and i was duking it out with a MG guy, Rockets reduce your HP too much compared to the MG, and they fire less often making it harder to attack groups - all your guys will fire on 1 tank when only 3 shots were neded to kill it.

pure rockets always fails. they're auxiliary weapons. think javelin throwers/skirmishers in a roman legion, you still need legionaries.

mg's aren't used "too much" but since many people can't seem to understand micromanagement, many people also gravitate toward weapons which require little to no micromanagement.

it's also important to realize that, given a body and propulsion of your tanks and those of your opponent, as the number of tanks on each side increases, the battle tips toward the side of the person whose weapons deal more damage at once rather than more constant damage over time. why? as soon as combat begins, the "burst" of damage initially dealt by, say, cannons or rockets will preclude some of the enemy's units from firing at all, since they have already been destroyed. a force composed of 100% rockets of course will be shredded, and many could say the same about a slower 100% cannon force. however, 100% machinegun will lose to other compositions most of the time, all else being equal. if your opponent obtains a resource advantage (which is your fault, i'll remind you) then of course you can be overrun by mg spam, just as well as spam of any other unit.

[NoQ]

many people can't seem to understand micromanagement

Network lags are responsible for that. You can't micromanage if you're never sure when your unit really is.

[Zarel]

pure rockets always fails. they're auxiliary weapons. think javelin throwers/skirmishers in a roman legion, you still need legionaries.

Not always. Rockets are awesome for hit-and-run. They'll fail if you use them defensively, but offensively it works quite well as a solo weapon.

[alto1234]

pure rockets always fails. they're auxiliary weapons. think javelin throwers/skirmishers in a roman legion, you still need legionaries.

Not always. Rockets are awesome for hit-and-run. They'll fail if you use them defensively, but offensively it works quite well as a solo weapon.

they work well as a hit-and-run weapon until your opponent's slightly weakened army makes a beeline for your base. hit and run is only a viable strategy when you are able to whittle down your opponent's units before they reach your base. any half decent player can simply mass cyborgs against a force entirely comprising rockets and head straight for one's base.

i think you also misinterpreted my statement. yes, hit-and-run works well offensively, but as an auxiliary tactic to complement the rest of your offense. you're not going to beat somebody with all rockets.

[Zarel]

they work well as a hit-and-run weapon until your opponent's slightly weakened army makes a beeline for your base. hit and run is only a viable strategy when you are able to whittle down your opponent's units before they reach your base. any half decent player can simply mass cyborgs against a force entirely comprising rockets and head straight for one's base.

i think you also misinterpreted my statement. yes, hit-and-run works well offensively, but as an auxiliary tactic to complement the rest of your offense. you're not going to beat somebody with all rockets.

I've beaten people with all rockets. The trick is to mix in MRA's for anti-cyborg and anti-structure. If he tries to make a beeline for your base with his army, you just harrass him, and his army generally dies before it reaches your base.