Global Laser Satellite Limit

[3drts]

The way games usually go now, laser sat command posts are just used to destroy enemy laser sat command posts, to prevent their own destruction. One might try a vtol raid, and then attack elsewhere with the sat, but they could just attack the sat with their own, and vtol raid where they were going to attack with the sat.

If you see a player still constructing their sat, and target something else, the enemy sat will be ready to fire a few seconds before yours is.
Its just a contest of who can reset their timer better.

Its just yet another thing about high oil I hate, just more APM to do that doesn't actually get you any closer to victory, much like victory seems to be determined by who can queue the most archangels - even if one player gets arch's a few minutes before another, it often comes down to keeping all your trucks queued up building them (and AA)

Then laser sat comes along, and if you are lucky you get 1 or two strikes before you must settle in to just neutralizing the other sat, and the T-3 game tech rush is over, and it is then an arty+AA queue war.

I find T-3 high oil games to be boring if you dont get an easy early win (like borg transports setting up a hellstorm firebase unseen... once the enemy has uplink, and plasmite bombers, you'll never be able to set up a firebase within range).


So, 1 simple change can break the stalemate: make a global limit of 1 Laser Sat command post.
It fits in with the Lore: its not like building a command post suddenly brings another laser satellite network into existence, all it can do is uplink and take control of the old one.

So lets say only one person can have control of the laser satellites at a time.
If the enemy gets it first, and you finish the research for it, you must destroy theirs to be able to build/use yours.

We could, perhaps, do this with the uplink site as well.


We could expand this concept even further
Perhaps have a script, where you have to research "Encryption codes" or something like that, to use a command post/uplink center, every time you build a new one.

IE: You destroy the enemy uplink center, you build your own, to use it, you need to break/reset the encryption to gain control of it.
Or:
You destroy the enemy uplink center, but do not have the tech to build one yourself, the enemy must rebuild the center, and "reconnect" to the sat uplink center, by breaking the encryption codes again.

This would increase the "downtime" between destruction of command posts/uplink sites.
Right now, destroying an uplink will surely cost you more units than the facility was worth, 15 trucks will have that thing back up in less than 30 seconds, if you destroy a laser sat, it can be up and ready to fire again in less than 5 minutes (in fact, I wonder if there is a possible exploit by demolishing and rebuilding a laser sat post after every shot, since when built, it starts with a partial charge).
Say a 3 minute "connection research" for the uplink center, and a 5 min "connection research" for the command post - meaning after every successful strike against an enemy command post, you get 10 minutes without further strikes, as well as a chance to take control of the las sats (assuming you break the encryption/construct the post and finish the research) first.

[KukY]

Like the idea, but only to part that only 1 player may control it at a time, after that it gets too complicated.

[lav_coyote25]

actually - if you were to do away with it completely, you wouldnt hear a nay from me. delete it from the game.

[Verin]

its not much of use anyway. i dont care much for it.

[KukY]

its not much of use anyway. i dont care much for it.

True. There is a interesting comment on the guide I totally agree with:

Personally I hate this weapon, it's just this eye in the sky that can blow things up at random. Prefer to play with it disabled.

[Wibble199]

I agree that it should be removed, and I also play with it disabled most of the time.
However I do like the thought of making it more complex to build and limit it to one per player (or maybe one per player for that whole team?) but I'm sure it wouldn't be asy for the dev's to implement, and how would you actually break these codes? What would the GUI look like?
There's a lot of things I think would need to be considered before adding such a different aspect to the game.

Summary of my thoughts: Good idea to limit to one per team, but a bit to complex to add the rest I feel.

[Verin]

This weapons problem, and i hope a developer see's this.

This weapon helps the winning team, and the team trying to catch up is setback even farther.

[Zarel]

This weapons problem, and i hope a developer see's this.

This weapon helps the winning team, and the team trying to catch up is setback even farther.

Dude... That's true of any weapon. If you took out every weapon from the game, no one would ever lose, and nothing would ever help the winning team.

[Aftermath]

I like 3drts's ideas, end game sounds much more exciting if it involves 2 or more players fighting over access to the sat network. The encryption research idea gives your research centres something to do when everything else has been researched, plus if the other team gets the uplink built before you do, you could take out his research centres to prevent him getting the codes (they will probs have 5 centres each giving them a fair chance).

And yes, if this cant, or wont be done, taking them out of the game is another option.

[3drts]

Yea... Im not so sure about the added complication of a research topic required to use the satellites, it was just a thought I had along similar lines to the campaign where you capture the missile silos, but then need to assign a research facility to crack the codes before you could "use them" (ie trigger the cutscene where they are used).


The problem I see is when games become stalemates.
Sometimes one player (or team) clearly cannot lose, but it seems they also cannot win, or will take hours to win, as the power levels and defensive effectiveness means that the other team/player can keep rebuilding, and stay in the fight indefinitely.

Laser Sats can be used to punch a hole in enemy defenses (particularly AA or artillery), and perhaps allow a VTOL raid to do more if they target the enemy AA.
But when both teams have them, they just target each other, and acheive nothing.

If the game goes on long enough to get them, something needs to be done to bring the game to a close, other than one player just giving up because it became tedious and victory was nowhere in sight.

A "king of the mountain" gameplay style with the satellite technologies would help bring the game to a close.

The only problem I see, is that the Sat techs are often around before Archangel missile tech, and archangels are often the last chance to break a stalemate, and I wouldn't want to get rid of this last change to break a stalemate with a somewhat imbalanced winner take all mechanic.

Perhaps Archangel missiles can be a pre-req for sat technology?

FIrst the long range "ballistic" missile artillery, then a missile silo for a rocket capable of reaching orbit - not one carrying new laser sat payloads (as that gets rid of the idea that only one player can have a laser sat network) - but some sort of "communication satellite" necessary to "re-establish a link with the Laser Satellite network" or some other lore BS like that.

So, in this iteration of the idea: laser sats are moved down the tech tree so archangels always have a chance to break the stalemate before the laser sat is around, only one player may have the laser sat at a time.

Since Laser sats aren't *that* effective, and in this idea, they are moved down the tech tree and used to break stalemates, I would propose doubling the ROF/halving the reload time.

[3drts]

I should also add, in a 3v3 (or a 4v4), if one team gets them first, even by just a few minutes (well say, 5-6), it can change the outcome.

3-4 players all build them at the same time- 5 minutes later, 3-4 laser strikes come in at once, that can clear a pretty large artillery field, obliterate chokepoint defenses, or clear away AA and allow VTOL bombers to raze an enemy base.

The 3v3 or 4v4 just became a 3v2 or a 4v3.
If the one team got the laser sats 10 min before the other team, they can get in a second full salvo before they should start targeting enemy laser sat posts, likely resulting in a second enemy base destroyed.
Its now 3v1 or 4v2, and even if the enemy gets laser sat tech right after, two of the allies would have a free hand to attack enemy defenses with their las sats, while their teammates take out the remaining enemies' laser sat uplink sites - unless of course the enemies transfer trucks to their allies, and their allies all pack into one base, but on a map like squared, those bases get quite cramped by the end, and fitting 2 more laser sats and associated factories and such for the players whose bases were just destroyed, is hard.

Even so, with 2 bases gone, the stalemate should be broken in terms of artillery at least.