About Olrox's lengthy thinking

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Olrox
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About Olrox's lengthy thinking

Post by Olrox »

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5309&p=56742#p56672
Dylan Hsu wrote:
Olrox wrote: Then suggest that and ask nicely, perhaps? It doesn't hurt anybody. Try wearing different hats sometimes, it's a learning/growing experience all the way around :P
Nobody asked you to be a parent or a therapist.
I'm posting this here because I don't want to give more work to the admins - splitting posts and stuff. It went off-topic and it'd be obvious if some recent turn of events had already happened - at this point, I wouldn't even care about letting put my personal critics.

What I want to say is that I offer my personal critics to anyone that, IMO, could improve a great deal. That's because I like this kind of critics for myself and I have a "built-in" leadrship instinct: I tend to try getting the best out of the people around me, even though I'm not a friend of theirs (I could not happen to be a father to them because I don't have any sons, yet).

Those personal critics, however, extend to the point where the one I'm trying to help closes the doors to any help, what is, IMO, what keeps people from growing mentally. To promote this kind of growth I've last mentioned, we all have to open our minds and thing about ourselves, in a wide range of ways that is almost identical to the Six Hats thinking. IMHO, to promote a true mental growth:

We've got to analyse ourselves, all the way around, trying to notice everything, without judging anything else but "Is that inherent to myself?".

We've got to analyse how to we feel about it. That one is instinctive and can't be truly explained - it's just feelings, purely.

We've got to think about what's bad about ourselves. What do I think it's getting on my way? What do I think it's getting on other people's ways? What can I Change and what I can not?

We've got to think about what's good about us, and keep thinking about that, never "forgetting about it because it's already good", because we can accidentally loose some good characteristics of ourselves due to external influences, internal reflections, or whatever.

Then, we've got to think about how can we change what we want to - by this time, we should already know, because we know what are our characteristics, we know how we feel about them, we know what we don't like about them, and we know which ones we like. Almost everything inside the humans brain can change, unless it's caused by mental disease, I think. It varies from "automatic" to "nearly impossible". Then, it's actually more about "what do I want to change?". There is the need to decide how we're going to change it, and in which way - what we like about ourselves needs to be intensified or at least mantained, and what we don't like needs to be reduced or even reverted - there is always a way of growing.

Lastly, we need to reflect about the whole proccess. Why is that important, what are the goals, was I sincere with my thoughts? Are my points really justified? Why do I want to improve? This last proccess is fundamental unless we want to waste time, because it's what fixates the whole line of thinking and makes us really understand what it's all about.

Now, why did I write all that, even if I know that Dylan isn't going to change with my words? I didn't write it "for Dylan", it is here for anyone who wants to know about it, and know why I'm always "so serious" about personality and mentality. It is a natural thing about me, and I feel good about it, I like it, and want to keep that for my whole life because I've already managed to make people better because of it, and I wouldn't be the way I am without such self-critics.

But it makes me sad when someone simply shuts the door to improvement just because they think they're already good like they are, and it's no one's duty to tell them what to do. Because that's a distortion about the whole thing: I don't want people to do what I want, simply like that. I want people to do what they sincerely think it's better, regardless of my own opinion. If that matches my own opinion, it's a great thing because it confirms that we are thinking rationally. If not, it's another opportunity to re-think about why such differences exist, and growing up more...

Sadly, I can expect one kind of answer from Dylan, which is "tl;dr". Bias? No, that's conclusions from the past. I'm not trying to flame Dylan, I'm trying to justify my own words here. And all those things I've said, including the limited-mindset behavior of closing the doors to improvements is obviously not exclusive to Dylan - Many people in our community think about that.

But gladly, many people don't - in those I deposit my hope that we'll have a better forum everyday, and careful, "out-of-the-box" opinions will always be available.

For lasy, but not least, I apologize if I've offended anyone with my way of thinking - and I'll probably keep apologizing because everytime I think if I should keep being like that, I reach the conclusion that it's better, even if I get a bad picture for myself, because this has been proven to be a true way of growing mentally and multiplying one's qualities, and I've already seen many people come out completely changed, all-better in countless ways, after going through this (often painful) proccess.

I do hope that everyone still knows that my own intentions are always aimed towards the best for the whole community - I don't think I've still got to prove that...

~Olrox
Last edited by Olrox on 24 May 2010, 17:40, edited 1 time in total.
Jorzi
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Jorzi »

I certainly agree with your points, your ability to express these subjects so clearly is quite impressive, as is the length of your post :P
Hopefully people will take time to read at least part of what you've written...
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by KukY »

People change.
That is true. But happens rarely.
This sounds like you want others to change to fit your criteria.
It isn't it, but people will think it is, and think of you as a _____(not sure what word to use).
I don't think your words will make people change, altough they are very convincible.
If you mind those people, you can always retreat to AR forum :P
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Olrox
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Olrox »

KukY wrote: If you mind those people, you can always retreat to AR forum :P
No, I can't. I don't retreat from opinions that are contrary to my own. Running from such conflicts would get me stuck with a single, limited, alienated mindset (which is one of my worst nightmares).

Surely most people will think that I try to manipulate them - that's what I meant with getting myself a bad picture. I don't really mind since some of them will be able to see that what I'm doing is actually making them think about themselves.

And I don't know why so many people insist to think that my criteria is so imposing, much like I was trying to force anybody. I don't try to do that, I don't want to, and even if I wanted, I wouldn't be able to.

My classmates behave very similarly towards me, I dunno if it's my voice or what, but everyone stops talking even if I just turn to ask someone to lend me a pen... :hmm:

But indeed, people rarely change - because they rarely really want to. Human potential has limits unkown to ourselves.

~Olrox
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by KukY »

Olrox wrote:Human potential has limits unkown to ourselves.
True.
KukY wrote:I have no other limts accept my old, slow computer.
XD
Olrox wrote:My classmates behave very similarly towards me, I dunno if it's my voice or what, but everyone stops talking even if I just turn to ask someone to lend me a pen... :hmm: x
I would love to hear your voice then :wink:
Olrox wrote:
KukY wrote:If you mind those people, you can always retreat to AR forum :P
No, I can't. I don't retreat from opinions that are contrary to my own. Running from such conflicts would get me stuck with a single, limited, alienated mindset (which is one of my worst nightmares).
Usually you say this: "You see that smiley? It means it is a joke/sarcasm."
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Olrox
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Olrox »

KukY wrote:Usually you say this: "You see that smiley? It means it is a joke/sarcasm."
Yep, and my response considered the second possibility. Sorry to have misinterpreted you.

~Olrox
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Dylan Hsu »

Your narcissistic belief that you are the prime authority on matters of personality and sociability is incorrigible. You're no more special than anybody else on these boards, and nobody asked you to play God, or give us information about mental growth. Your opinion isn't special, and you have no right to criticize my character simply because you disapprove.
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by BlueMaxima »

Dylan Hsu wrote:Your narcissistic belief that you are the prime authority on matters of personality and sociability is incorrigible. You're no more special than anybody else on these boards, and nobody asked you to play God, or give us information about mental growth. Your opinion isn't special, and you have no right to criticize my character simply because you disapprove.
It is his god and worldly given right to criticize your character. I'd do the same if I could write poems.
Bring back...ducks!
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by macuser »

PLEASE please. Lets not get into a heated debate. Lets not start a flame war. Olrox did apologize dylan.

A wise man said "It takes two to start a fight; it only takes one to stop one"

Therefore my suggestion is that we leave it at that.

-regards macuser
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Olrox
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Olrox »

Dylan Hsu wrote:You're no more special than anybody else on these boards, and nobody asked you to play God, or give us information about mental growth.
That's true, and that's why I'm not trying to "play God", but instead of that, just offering my opinion for anyone who cares about it, in the best way I can, everytime I can. I know that nobody asked me to say anything about "mental growth", but I'm sharing my own philosophy because I do like it and I think that some people can appreciate it.

A very particular characteristic of yours is that you always seem to dodge any criticism and focus on what you see on other people - I've got no problem with that, since you won't care if I do. I do think that you could think more about yourself (it case it wasn't clear before).

I've had a very similar conversation with Zarel some years ago, when he wasn't a dev yet. I recall that he wasn't as balanced as he is right now (he wasn't a bad member, but he criticized other people much more often and more intensively), and I'm not sure if he found use for what I've told him back then or not, but today he is clearly more equilibrated. Of course he didn't do "what I told him to do", actually by that time I wasn't even close to be caring as I am today, with the community, so I probably didn't even tell him what I thought he should do... But I do believe that I at least managed to make him think a bit about his own personality, and probably he found in himself what it takes to be a better person.

Now, about "don't start a flame war", I definetely won't. I don't even care abut what Dylan wants to say or not, as long as he doesn't explicitly offend anyone or violate any rules. His reputation is of his own account only, and he is the only one that should care about it, since he already closed the doors for any kind of help. I must say, I needed help to learn to be better balanced in my own behavior as well, and I have no shame in that, because I'm still very young and got many things to learn.

I will go on with my behavior because I think there are people who want to be better, and I hope I don't offend anybody on my course. If I am "special" or not, it isn't my duty to say. But I do try to make a difference, and I won't stop just because nobody told me to always try to improve myself or my group. It is always with cooperation that the most incredible capabilities of mankind shine, and I won't give up trying to achieve the best I can whenever I can... Nobody needs to ask someone to make a difference.

But if I am really a bad person because I'm doing that, I don't know why so many people want me to stay and continue my work. It is the approval of the overwhelming part of the community, or a simple "shut up" from the administrators, that will make me stop or not...

But well, if you really want that, and you've already made it very obvious, I won't comment on yourself. If you do something against the rules, I'll just report you, and I'll ignore you if you go on like that. Please forgive me for caring about you.

~Olrox
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Dylan Hsu »

Olrox wrote: But well, if you really want that, and you've already made it very obvious, I won't comment on yourself. If you do something against the rules, I'll just report you, and I'll ignore you if you go on like that. Please forgive me for caring about you.

~Olrox
Please do that. Forgiven.
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Zarel »

Olrox wrote:I've had a very similar conversation with Zarel some years ago, when he wasn't a dev yet. I recall that he wasn't as balanced as he is right now (he wasn't a bad member, but he criticized other people much more often and more intensively), and I'm not sure if he found use for what I've told him back then or not, but today he is clearly more equilibrated.
Psst, I was a dev at that time. :P Before I was a dev, I pretty much only participated in development discussions.
Olrox wrote:Of course he didn't do "what I told him to do", actually by that time I wasn't even close to be caring as I am today, with the community, so I probably didn't even tell him what I thought he should do... But I do believe that I at least managed to make him think a bit about his own personality, and probably he found in himself what it takes to be a better person.
I remember that discussion; it devolved into a flamewar and I really didn't get much from it. I've improved mostly just from stiv criticizing me for pretty much everything. ;)

I haven't really commented on this much, but I'm not sure lecturing other members is a good idea. First of all, that much text is like three times too much to give when unsolicited. Like, maybe three paragraphs, max. I mean, it's not a bad thing in and of itself to want to help, but to lecture someone that much will just make someone disinterested or irritated, and will not accomplish the original intended goal of improving them.
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Rman Virgil »

.


Olrox you know I get where your coming from, am indeed aligned with these concepts & consider Edward de Bono one of my mentor-teachers in all matters related to effective creative cognitive technique and learning strategies. (Not to mention his international record of achievement, success & accolades over nearly half a century is unassailable.)

That said, when it comes to sharing, if you do not have a clearly solicited empathic path and invitation to reciprocity and still choose to share with what is likely an adamant ego tunnel I find the most effective tact is a variant of the Nonengagement Strategy that utilizes memetic infection. Being non-confrontational & innocuous, it is not at all obvious what is happening, does takes a bit longer commitment (it is, however, surely subversive in a revolutionary sense when it comes to mind-set paradigm shifts) but, quite amazingly, the ROI is very high as far as effecting constructive, generative, change over the longer haul.

- RV :ninja:

.
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Olrox
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Re: Mental Growth - Olrox's conception

Post by Olrox »

Zarel wrote:to lecture someone that much will just make someone disinterested or irritated, and will not accomplish the original intended goal of improving them.
At this point, my goal stopped being to help anyone other than myself - I wrote all that to describe the way I think about it, rather than "you must do that, it is the utmost truth and everything else is crap". That's because I think a whole lot about it all the time, and maybe someone would make good use for what I've got from years of hearing "you think too much Fabian, you should have more fun for your life instead of being so serious".

That is indeed very similar to what a teacher tries to do with his students, since it's sharing knowledge with people because it'd be for them to understand something that can probably get better persons out of the proccess. Maybe if I stuffed all of my post with "maybes" and "probablies" and "perhapses" it'd look less like I'm prepotent - and that's something that I really am not, I never say that "what's mine better than anyone's else". But I do place all of my bets on my thoughts (because, as I've said, I think very much about life), whenever I got good ones.

Makes me wonder if it's better, after all, to care only about my sons, and not about my brothers anymore.

About the length of my post... I'm not superficial, you know that - I'd only be able to describe all that in 3 paragraphs under severe pressure, placing something valuable at stake.

I'll change the topic's name to "About Olrox's lengthy thinking" :P

~Olrox
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Re: About Olrox's lengthy thinking

Post by Olrox »

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5091&p=57350#p57350
Christheturtle wrote:Wow. This thing was blown completely out of proportion.

Olrox, although I understand your frustration on the matter (I have similar views in some ways), I think you somewhat overlooked the fact that maybe he has trouble writing/reading English himself? Thus the reason for making the mistake in the first place (the whole 'Mexican' thing). I just think that out of everyone else who writes like an idiot on these forums (ohhaikkthxbai), he's being singled out here.
Oh, that - yeah.

That kind of thing was the whole thing about me having some time off from the forums until today by the morning. Sometimes (sometimes too often, that is) I get ahead of myself, - brace for the Nth time I say that - trying to find my own morality in outer minds. I've realized I can't do that more frequently than once in a dozen years, and that it's "Too hard!" to keep trying to make people re-think their own way of thinking.

I've spent a month or so after the first days of December, last year, to reflect wether I should stay here or not, and if I'd stay, what would I do. I've choosen to continue trying to help people the best way I can, as often as I can. This proved to be a very ungrateful task and even proved to make some people very mad at me, and that's why I'll stop all that compassion if I can't look the man in the eyes. I've already apologized for being so annoying, trying to express my own mentality, perhaps I should add that to my signature or something (nah, thinking about it, it'd look too hypocritical :P )

Me? I don't mind being singled - it is the whole thing about being myself, after all! But I do understand that many people have their own reasons to be ashamed when being highlighted and shown with their flaws exposed (don't get me wrong, please - I do have big flaws, but they won't make me stop trying to make the world a better place, even though I'm almost sure that I'll die trying to do that. For me, that's the biggest face of true dignity).

Hmm, you know, I've almost posted something in that Introductions topic you've created, twice, but I've stopped whenever I thought about the 20000 character limit per post thing. I'm many things, good and bad and neutral. And If I've tried to write it down in something like 15 lines, I'd feel like I've only let a splinter of myself out, and hidden the whole thing, making everyone think I'm someone I actually am not... I hate unfinished things. I'm installing Photoshop here right now because of that :stressed:

My grandfather told me once, "Fabian, you won't fit in words. You can write books, compose musics, make paintings, build houses, design mechanisms, create formulas, have a family, but you truly won't fit in all of those things". I thought for a while and answered "Can I get another lifetime?" :stare:

Those people really shouldn't tell me those things, it makes me too proud and that's usually not good. But at least it gives me the motivation to do the best I can.

But, where are my manners? Sorry for sharing :wink:

~Olrox
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