Bunker Busters overdone!?

[GiGaBaNE]

ok havnt played for a while and today was my first day playing multi player.

i thought bunkers had their own armor type and that 'BUNKER' busters were very good at killing these but pretty limp at everything else.

I had my entire defence line smashed very quickly by them, thats bunkers, walls and hardpoints...wtf?

[Zarel]

Bunker busters are strong against all structures. They're strongest against bunkers, but they're also extremely strong against hard structures, and fairly strong against other structures, too.

[GiGaBaNE]

well thats ruined a perfectly good turtle game, now ill just zerg and throw in some BB's

[GiGaBaNE]

------------AP----Anti-Tank----Anti-Struct----Artillery----Flamer----All-Rounder

Hard structures 50% 25% 300% 100% 10% 90%
Bunkers 80% 60% 400% 40% 300% 50%

yeah i see from the guide assuming its upto date.
triple damage to hard structures is excessive, it really has removed our ability to turtle.
im fine with the damage, but if its gonna be that way then the price needs to go way up on them.

and the reason they not suppose to be so tough on structures is the fact they have relitivly low yeild as a weapon, its pure weight and material density that allows it to enter a bunker. against a solid structure the damage should only be like armor piercing with a bit more damage.



as in picture, structure isnt actually that badly damaged..BB's kill the occupants with concussion rather than blowing up entire buildings especially solid ones.

doubt bunker busters fired horisontaly at a medival castle would do all that much damage.

here is a great example of the AP effects of BB's, but notice the lack of structure damage (not including the gaping hole it made on its way in, lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA2Rl8_2pLE

[TVR]

Bunker Buster featured in Warzone 2100 uses a HESH warhead, which is exceptional for fracturing concrete.

.. triple damage to hard structures is excessive, it really has removed our ability to turtle. ...

Bunker buster is only a hard counter to structures, thus artillery and mobile units are needed to reinforce a position.

[Zarel]

Yeah. If you turtle, that doesn't mean you're completely invulnerable. That would be ridiculous. You still have weaknesses. Bunker busters are easy to deal with, anyway, just have a few flamer hovers running around.

[GiGaBaNE]

yeah thanks, i expected to suffer at the hands of BB's but it was just soul destroying to smash wave after wave of combined arms ( my opponant hit me fast and hard, and did i mention fast?, lol) only to watch my entire line fall to 6 BB's

however as well as making units to counter i will make those limp towers as their armor is medium and minipod is availible faster than BBs.

on a side note however, altho bunker busters and HESH ammo both are reputed to do great damage, the two concussive energy principles are mutually exclusive, a metal casing designed to hold its shape long enough to pass through the armor and deliver its charge cannot also be designed to lose its shape on impact to send a shockwave thru the armor.

[GiGaBaNE]

My bad, having looked a little more i begin to understand.
altho both use the name Bunker buster the armor piercing type and the hesh type are actually different types of bunker buster.

as such i would like to request some tech. e.g spall liners and composite armor for walls. i concede to the damage they can cause, but basic wall sections should be allowed to upgrade to the point it can take 4 hits or so. any architech worth his pay check can design flying buttress and the like to channel stress, why cant military engineers design walls with a soft core to reduce spalling.


ok ill shut up now, im like a dog with a bone..dont wanna put it down

[Zarel]

Meh, why not lancer towers? Or god forbid, tanks or cyborgs.

[psychopompos]

there are composit armour upgrades for walls in t3
well, they are called such.

but anyway...

Meh, why not lancer towers? Or god forbid, tanks or cyborgs.

this

[GiGaBaNE]

Meh, why not lancer towers? Or god forbid, tanks or cyborgs.

my opponant hit me fast and hard, and did i mention fast?, lol.

2 very obvious reasons, 1 mini pod towers are all you can get in time against a rusher and as to tanks and cyborgs, well i was in a sealed off base so they couldnt go anywhere, the hope was to tech up some before opening my doors.

i only had enough time to make 3 bombards before i was breached, my plan was to pepperpot and cyborg mortars. but dead before i got there. =(

[Zarel]

2 very obvious reasons, 1 mini pod towers are all you can get in time against a rusher and as to tanks and cyborgs, well i was in a sealed off base so they couldnt go anywhere, the hope was to tech up some before opening my doors.

Well, obviously, you're doing something wrong, then. Bunker Buster is a T2 weapon; it has lancer as one of its prerequisites. If, as a turtle, you can't tech up faster than a rusher, you shouldn't be turtling.

And clearly that means sealing off your base is a bad strategy. You have no one to blame but yourself for having a bad strategy.

i only had enough time to make 3 bombards before i was breached, my plan was to pepperpot and cyborg mortars. but dead before i got there. =(

Bombards are near useless against heavy tanks.

[winsrp]

hmmm... its definitely bad strategy bro... sorry

Mortars and such are good to clear out load of guys on foot, so against tanks you are dead there, the stronger the tank the less damage you do with arty.

So in order to kill tanks, I think that by that time you should have either Med cannon or even Heavy Cannon if you move fast enough, also hordes of lancers are good to keep tanks away from your base, but I prefer to keep cannons up until tank killers are available to keep low cost.

Mortars and such are not that great against tanks, but they are good due to their range, in order to soft them up a little bit on the far side... but its always good to have some vtol strike towers with some lancers loaded up... those also help a lot.

[TVR]

... i would like to request some tech. e.g spall liners and composite armor for walls. ...

As concrete fractures instead of deforming, it does not spall nor would spall lining help maintain its structural integrity

Common armour composites are not effective for protecting concrete against HESH, as steel propagates concussion & ceramic shatters in the same manner as concrete.

... basic wall sections should be allowed to upgrade to the point it can take 4 hits or so. ...

An entirely metal wall, although nearly immune to damage by concussion, is not as cost-effective nor quick to construct as a concrete wall.

Therefore it cannot fulfil a wall's primary purpose, to block KE, HE, HEAT, and incendiary rounds while being quick and cheap to build or replace.

[GiGaBaNE]

well looking at the comments i can see some very good points. tho there are a few things i forgot to mention.
ive never played on anything other than t1 no base as a setting, and in the game in question, i went directly for rotary MGs to the detriment of all else.

i know my tactics need to be worked on i have no issue with that, it was my first multiplayer game as i have mentioned.

and yes shockwaves would shatter concrete, but maybe something needs to be considered once walls hit plascrete and plasteel