Fewer production upgrades [NEW POLL]

[Zarel]

Update

I get the feeling a lot of people are voting "No" because they're misinterpreting the question. Plus, I didn't expect much controversy, so I didn't really write a detailed argument for why it's a good idea. Therefore, I'm going to restart the poll (with a rephrased question).

As it currently stands, each individual production upgrade isn't worth researching. It's not some theoretical thing - it's practical: No one researches them currently (except when they have nothing better to do, or to fill prereqs). By decreasing the number of upgrades and increasing the effect of upgrades, we make them more worth researching, and thus we increase the number of useful research topics, and thus the complexity of strategy.

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Today, there's only one topic:

In multiplayer, we should get rid of the "Mk" upgrades for Factory Production, Cyborg Production, VTOL Production, and Repair Facility, leaving only the "major" ones.

In other words, we're removing "Automated Factory Production Mk2" and "Automated Factory Production Mk3", etc, but keeping "Automated Factory Production" and "Robotic Factory Production", etc.

Since none of these speeds are ever bottlenecks (and thus worth researching) except on unlimited-oil maps like TeamWar, I don't think anyone ever researches them except to fill prereqs, so we can probably trim down the tree a bit by getting rid of these. As much as I hate to see Warzone's glorious research tree cut down, I think these should go.

Who's with me?

Feedback welcome. The poll is just to get a general idea. I see a lot of people voting no, but you have to tell me why not if you want me to listen.

[Timmay]

Sorry, maybe my English is just to limited but I do not understand what you mean by „bottleneck“. I know what a bottleneck is and have quite an idea of the metaphor but in total I’m not sure.
Why don’t somebody tell me what the Updates for all these Factories exactly do. Then I can make a profound decision.

[Zarel]

Sorry, maybe my English is just to limited but I do not understand what you mean by „bottleneck“. I know what a bottleneck is and have quite an idea of the metaphor but in total I’m not sure.

Basically, since you generally aren't using the factory 100% of the time, making factory production faster isn't going to give you a very significant advantage. This is because the bottleneck for how many units you can produce is how much power you have, not how fast your factory is.

Sure, in the early game, being able to build trucks faster is an advantage, but you won't need trucks by the time you finish researching a production upgrade.

Why don’t somebody tell me what the Updates for all these Factories exactly do. Then I can make a profound decision.

Check the Guide. Each production upgrade is a +30% step, and each repair facility upgrade is a +50% step. I'd get rid of the Mk2 and Mk3's, and make the upgrades +60% and +100%, respectively. I'd probably make them a bit more expensive, too.

[Timmay]

Now I can see your point and you are total right. By playing with lets say five factories you will most likely not be ably to produce all the time since your running out of energy and that’s why producing a bit faster is not really making the difference.


Just a little idea, have you ever thought about connecting the researches with the upgrades of the factories itself? Right now, after you got the first research you can Update your factories direct with both modules (or do I get it wrong?)

The Idea is
The first research would enable the player to upgrade the Factory with a second Module to enable the player to build light and medium bodies. The next research would than enable the player to upgrade the factory with the third module for producing vehicles with heavy body. Maybe you could also add the energy a certain vehicle needs to be produced counts in.
First Update, you can build everything that needs less than 300 energy
Second Update, everything that needs less than 600
(and so on and so on, you know the drill)
This would add to these researches a lot more importance.

I’m just not right sure if this would work well in the campaign since I do not know when you get what to research.

[Terminator]

If you'r talking about your rebalance mod - than I think its your right to do that, but if you want to cut "MK" from official WRP - than I think you shouldn't.

[Zarel]

If you'r talking about your rebalance mod - than I think its your right to do that, but if you want to cut "MK" from official WRP - than I think you shouldn't.

The Rebalance mod is official WRP for 2.2 and beyond.

[Terminator]

The Rebalance mod is official WRP for 2.2 and beyond.

Anyway its MOD & can be turned off, so - yes, you can cut it off (MK).

[ThomasCarstein]

Zarel: "The Rebalance mod is official WRP for 2.2 and beyond."

Can you please explain this to me? Does this mean that when 2.2 with videos comes out, this mod's implementations will be "merged" in to the core game 2.2 and any further updates?

I hope not, but if yes, then I'll write another post soon... I do not aprove of cutting this out off the oficial release.

[Per]

Having a ludicrous amount of research topics is what makes Warzone what it is.

[cloud6sword]

well if its going to be a mod then do it because like they said u can turn it on and off but if its just auto in the game no turning it on or off then i wouldn't because its fun sifting though all the different things to get this or that and if u dont know the tree just researching wut ever u can

[lav_coyote25]

Having a ludicrous amount of research topics is what makes Warzone what it is.

exactly... there is NO other game that even comes close to warzone2100 in gpm. i vote leave things as is. for now.

[Zarel]

Zarel: "The Rebalance mod is official WRP for 2.2 and beyond."

Can you please explain this to me? Does this mean that when 2.2 with videos comes out, this mod's implementations will be "merged" in to the core game 2.2 and any further updates?

I hope not, but if yes, then I'll write another post soon... I do not aprove of cutting this out off the oficial release.

Yep. Why not?

Having a ludicrous amount of research topics is what makes Warzone what it is.

Oh, there are 450 topics. Removing 20 of them isn't gonna make that much of a difference. It's 20 that few people ever research, anyway.

Guys, this is about balance. Removing these would make for a better game. Really, when's the last time you researched Robotic VTOL Production Mk3? "Leave it in just so it's there" is counterproductive to good game balance. Having tech that no one wants to research simply doesn't make a game good.

[lav_coyote25]

when your in a long game - ie: more than 20mins to 15 hours. i always attempt to research all topics. thats just me. if you do away with these - what are you going to replace them with? new weapons?

[Black Project]

Don't remove them.

IMO, researching all their upgrades in a single research will make the factories got a bigger output gain, and becomes easy for those who are lazy to wait research MKI, MK2 and MK3 factory researches.

Feel free to comment of my opinion.

Regards BP

[Zarel]

when your in a long game - ie: more than 20mins to 15 hours. i always attempt to research all topics. thats just me. if you do away with these - what are you going to replace them with? new weapons?

Okay, so the only situation where you research them is when you have nothing else to research.

Yeah, that's a real good reason to let them stay.

Don't remove them.

IMO, researching all their upgrades in a single research will make the factories got a bigger output gain, and becomes easy for those who are lazy to wait research MKI, MK2 and MK3 factory researches.

So, um, what's wrong with that?

Seriously, people, I see 9 votes "no", and no one's given me a single good reason why they should stay.