Scavenger Infantry from Cyborg Factory?

[3drts]

How can I make scavenger infantry build-able from a cyborg factory?

Ideally, I'd make the cyborg factory build-able at the same time as the factory, and require synaptic link research (as seen in the campaign) to make cyborgs build-able from the Cy-factory.

The idea being one could build a cyborg factory very very early, and spam infantry capable of dealing with early machine gun viper wheels in a favorable manner when considering cost - their slow speed, low firepower, and very weak armor would be off set by very rapid production times, and a very cheap cost (basically you make something like an AK-47 rather than an armored car, and give it to some starving person - like they do in africa - and have them go out and fight).
They could be sort of like a "militia" defense early on, but not much of an offensive force as they are slow and bunkers would chew them up.

I'd love to see infantry rushes of a close neighbor early game - and as harassing jokes later in the game - ie after you have the game in the bag... spearhead with scavenger infantry before you unleash your artillery barrage, heavy tanks, and VTOLs - preferably you have enough infantry such that they actually make it past the main enemy gate (not that they will have destroyed anything), such that your own artillery and thermite bombs inflict heavy losses on them..... >: )

am I sick or what?

cyborgs are simply too strong.... stronger than a wheeled viper... I'd like to see something the viper could dominate

[hawkn]

i would like that too, but who's gona do it? i don't have the programing skills yet, but i could make the 3d models.

[3drts]

So I looked in Bodies.txt, and changed the appropriate value from 0 to 1 for all the barbarian bodies to make them "designable" - hoping they would appear as options in the design menu -> they didn't

I looked in templates.txt and saw all the scavengers use either "BaBaprop" or "BaBalegs" - ie "Barbarian Propulsion" -> wheels I assume, and "barbarian legs" for the infantry - I assume these special propulsions have no graphics associated with them as they do not appear modular in the game (ie you cant see where the body ends and the propulsion system begins).
It didn't seem to list what weapons were associated with each template (is this so a Barbarian buggy can shoot at you with a machinggun in one mission, and a heavy machinegun in the next?)

So I assume I will have to find what to modify to make BaBaProp and BaBaLegs "designable", and then find out where to edit their prerequisites, so I can actually get them to appear in the design menu (Just because the "Tiger" body is designable, doesn't make it show up until the proper research is done, I assume this is the same case)

Then I assume there is some other file that determines what design can be built at what factory type (ie, it uses VTOL -> VTOL factory, Cyborg legs & BaBa legs -> cyborg factory, etc)

I still don't know what weapons they use.

I think it would be cool to start the game with the entire "scavenger faction" produceable, and research better stuff from there.
Sure Scavs have mini pod rockets and cannons - just assume they are scavenged, and you don't yet know how to make new rocket pods and cannons (plus they would suck until you research to their upgrades).

Or even more ambitious - assume there is a finite level of "scavengable" stuff - make everything scavenger produced from a scavenger "garage factory" -> that can't be re-built, and only appears on T1 games set to a start below an advanced base.

But that is much more ambitious than finding the right text to edit to make the scavenger infantry build-able from the cyborg factory, and make the cyborg factory build-able before it is researched.

[Zarel]

So I looked in Bodies.txt, and changed the appropriate value from 0 to 1 for all the barbarian bodies to make them "designable" - hoping they would appear as options in the design menu -> they didn't

I looked in templates.txt and saw all the scavengers use either "BaBaprop" or "BaBalegs" - ie "Barbarian Propulsion" -> wheels I assume, and "barbarian legs" for the infantry - I assume these special propulsions have no graphics associated with them as they do not appear modular in the game (ie you cant see where the body ends and the propulsion system begins).
It didn't seem to list what weapons were associated with each template (is this so a Barbarian buggy can shoot at you with a machinggun in one mission, and a heavy machinegun in the next?)

So I assume I will have to find what to modify to make BaBaProp and BaBaLegs "designable", and then find out where to edit their prerequisites, so I can actually get them to appear in the design menu (Just because the "Tiger" body is designable, doesn't make it show up until the proper research is done, I assume this is the same case)

Then I assume there is some other file that determines what design can be built at what factory type (ie, it uses VTOL -> VTOL factory, Cyborg legs & BaBa legs -> cyborg factory, etc)

I still don't know what weapons they use.

I think it would be cool to start the game with the entire "scavenger faction" produceable, and research better stuff from there.
Sure Scavs have mini pod rockets and cannons - just assume they are scavenged, and you don't yet know how to make new rocket pods and cannons (plus they would suck until you research to their upgrades).

Or even more ambitious - assume there is a finite level of "scavengable" stuff - make everything scavenger produced from a scavenger "garage factory" -> that can't be re-built, and only appears on T1 games set to a start below an advanced base.

But that is much more ambitious than finding the right text to edit to make the scavenger infantry build-able from the cyborg factory, and make the cyborg factory build-able before it is researched.

"Designable" means "If enabled, it will appear in the design screen." You still have to research it, and you probably don't have anything that enables it, which means you'd need to use the "give all" cheat for it to appear.

You probably don't want to design it, though (cyborgs aren't designable for a reason). Research has this weird thing where to enable a template, you research the corresponding body (which must be set to undesignable).

Prerequisites are in stats/research/multiplayer/prresearch.txt - MAKE SURE you update research.txt with the number of prerequisites, or Warzone will crash. Research results are in result*.txt

Template weapons are in stats/assignweapon.txt - they're handled separately.

This should really be written down somewhere.

[3drts]

It should, I have no idea how to edit prresearch.txt and research.txt

What do the numbers mean after a string like:
R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat08,R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat07,1086
R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat09,R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat08,1087
R-Vehicle-Body01,R-Vehicle-Body01,229
R-Vehicle-Body02,R-Vehicle-Metals04,230
R-Vehicle-Body03,R-Vehicle-Metals07,233
R-Vehicle-Body03,R-Vehicle-Body04,233
R-Vehicle-Body04,R-Vehicle-Metals01,234
R-Vehicle-Body05,R-Struc-Factory-Module,235

The numbers seem to go in order within a group, but some are skipped,

Now you say in research.txt I must update with the number of prereq's
I don't get it, research.txt just has lines like:
R-Vehicle-Body01,Level One,0,0,IMAGE_RES_DROIDTECH,0,0,RES_V_B01,0,Body1REC,BODY,600,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
R-Vehicle-Body02,Level Two,0,0,IMAGE_RES_DROIDTECH,0,0,RES_V_B02,0,Body2SUP,BODY,6000,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
R-Vehicle-Body03,Level Three,0,0,IMAGE_RES_DROIDTECH,0,0,RES_V_B03,0,Body3MBT,BODY,14400,1,2,0,0,0,0,0,1

For now, I simply want to make the template for the "BaBaPeople" have zero pre-reqs- I want it to be like the truck - available without any research,
and I still don't have any idea how to make cyborg factories available with no research, like vehicle factories - preferably the "cyborg factory" research would still show up with no changes needed so that cyborgs aren't moved in the tech tree

[Zarel]

It should, I have no idea how to edit prresearch.txt and research.txt

What do the numbers mean after a string like:
R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat08,R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat07,1086
R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat09,R-Vehicle-Armor-Heat08,1087
R-Vehicle-Body01,R-Vehicle-Body01,229
R-Vehicle-Body02,R-Vehicle-Metals04,230
R-Vehicle-Body03,R-Vehicle-Metals07,233
R-Vehicle-Body03,R-Vehicle-Body04,233
R-Vehicle-Body04,R-Vehicle-Metals01,234
R-Vehicle-Body05,R-Struc-Factory-Module,235

The numbers seem to go in order within a group, but some are skipped,

Now you say in research.txt I must update with the number of prereq's
I don't get it, research.txt just has lines like:
R-Vehicle-Body01,Level One,0,0,IMAGE_RES_DROIDTECH,0,0,RES_V_B01,0,Body1REC,BODY,600,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
R-Vehicle-Body02,Level Two,0,0,IMAGE_RES_DROIDTECH,0,0,RES_V_B02,0,Body2SUP,BODY,6000,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
R-Vehicle-Body03,Level Three,0,0,IMAGE_RES_DROIDTECH,0,0,RES_V_B03,0,Body3MBT,BODY,14400,1,2,0,0,0,0,0,1

For now, I simply want to make the template for the "BaBaPeople" have zero pre-reqs- I want it to be like the truck - available without any research,
and I still don't have any idea how to make cyborg factories available with no research, like vehicle factories - preferably the "cyborg factory" research would still show up with no changes needed so that cyborgs aren't moved in the tech tree

Available without any research requires you to do stuff with slo/vlo definitions. It's ridiculously complicated. Just tack it onto MG or something; it costs 1 power and researches in 2 seconds or so.

http://developer.wz2100.net/wiki/TxtEditing
This will tell you which column is "number of prereqs". By the way, it's easier if you rename it to research.txt.csv and open it with Excel, Calc, or Gnumeric.

The numbers in prresearch.txt are, as far as I know, research IDs that are no longer used. I believe they're safe to ignore.

[3drts]

Ok, I'm stupid, I still can't figure this out.

I still don't know what to change to make scavengers buildable.

I assume a string like in prresearch.txt:
R-Vehicle-Body02,R-Vehicle-Metals04,230

means the research topic for vehicle body 02 needs vehicle metals 04.

and in research.txt:
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,Level One,0,0,IMAGE_RES_WEAPONTECH,0,0,RES_MG1MK1,0,MG1Mk1,WEAPON,60,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,2

can I duplicate that and take out MG1Mk1,WEAPON, and stick in B1BaBaPerson01,BODY ?

You said enabling the body enables the template right?

Then there is still the matter of where the template is built.... I assume a cyborg transport uses a template, as cyborgs do, and as the campaign vehicle transport does - clearly there must be something like a " produced by *structure name* " variable - where is that so I can make BaBaPeople buildable from a factory?

I was also looking at result component.txt it looks like it might be applicable.

I see:

"R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1-VTOL,WEAPON,0,0,10
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1Mk1,WEAPON,0,0,10"
and

"R-Vehicle-Body02,Body2SUP,BODY,0,0,2"

If it makes components available based on what was just researched, can I just add babaperson on the end like so:

R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1-VTOL,WEAPON,0,0,10
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1Mk1,WEAPON,0,0,10
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,B1BaBaPerson01,BODY,0,0,10

to enable the BaBaPerson body, which you said should enable the template that uses the body?

Then once again what defines where that template is built from?

It would be really nice if there were a tutorial on how to make "template A" buildable after "Research B" at "Factory type C"

Then I wouldn't need to ask questions on anything ranging from making nexus cyborgs, to vehicle transports, to any type of scavengers.

[whippersnapper]

..

- I would suggest you download Black Project's new mod to the original Campaign here:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2777

- Just go through his source and you'll see how he did it..... In this case, Researching the "Cobra" body makes the Scavs available to the player..

- BTW.... you're ideas sound like they would be lots of fun.

- Cheers, whipper

.

[3drts]

I will have a look at his mod and try to figure out what he did. I may even play it, but it sounds like he just made the enemy units über strong - which I have little interest in playing - Nexus already has superior units, The collective already did, the new paradigm had slightly better units than you most of the time (considering that the bug, with the the alloys research you get in that away mission with 2 LZs, is as good as tough the viper without the alloys research). It seems like just compensating for the stupid AI by giving the AI units even more of an advantage than they already had.

If I figure it out, I may have to fire up my old PC, and make some maps where your base is composed completely of scavenger units and structures (plus 1 research facility) - which still show up if you select start with bases or advanced bases - and set all the scavenger units to be produceable from the Scav garage factory after MG research.

I think it would be a lot of fun to have scavenger skirmishes in the first few minutes of the game - I think some of the scav buggies can go head to head with a MG Viper Wheels - they may remain useful in play until HMG HT Vipers come out.

Heck, why not include them as such in version 2.2 or 2.3 or whatever - basically have them there whenever a map designer sticks their factory in there as a starting structure.

Don't bother trying to balance them (aside from maybe their cost), or setting specific research for a jeep vs a rocket jeep - just leave them in there as a fun option map designers can open up by including their structure.

*envisions going into edit world, and making a version of Rush called Scavenger Rush, starting with 2 scav factories and scav defenses, where the game can basically be decided before the Scav units are completely obsolete - ie before heavy bodies come into play*

Btw, did anyone ever make a version of Edit World that runs on Mac OS X?

*edit*

so far the only difference I see is in resultcomponent.txt and the following has been added:

R-Vehicle-Body05,B4body-sml-trike01,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B3body-sml-buggy01,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B2JeepBody,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B3bodyRKbuggy01,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B2RKJeepBody,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,BusBody,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,FireBody,BODY,0,0,2

I am going to do the same, and add the B1BaBaPerson01 body (as I noticed he had changed it so the standard scavenger infantry used a stronger body)

*edit* must have changed something else too, it crashes when I add the above to result component.txt
*further edit*, I changed the last variable from body05 in research text to 2, and only added 1 more component to result component.txt (R-Vehicle-Body05,FireBody,BODY,0,0,2), it didn't crash, but it didn't let me build fire trucks either.
I still don't know what to do.

Simply adding a scavenger factory in world edit doesn't allow you to make scavengers, does it?

[lav_coyote25]

Btw, did anyone ever make a version of Edit World that runs on Mac OS X?

not yet... perhaps sometime in the future..

[whippersnapper]

.

- I suggested BP's Cam Mod specifically for Scav Research file structure.

- As for it making Cam merely Uber Hard - somewhat misleading, IMHO. What BP has done results in game play that is greater
than the sum of it's individual implementation parts - it's aka, synergistic. In short, it affords the player a wide breath of opportunity to employ
diverse RL Military Tactics - much, much, more than the original Cam or standard MP game play. From my POV, it offers Next Gen
RTS game play. My posts in his thread go into greater detail about what I mean exactly.

- As Lav said Edit World comes as only a Win Prog, right now. You may run it on Mac in a Win VM or like you said fire up your old wintel box.... the system reqs for EW are modest.

- All that you mention doing with Scavs can indeed be done in EW. I have done it by making Scav Allies for each player in the map making stage by assigning all scav stuff player IDs..... structs, emplacements, units... Rush is a good choice, I think, to do it on. "Start-Up" might also be a good map to test "proof-of-concept"....

- Regards, whipper.

[Zarel]

Ok, I'm stupid, I still can't figure this out.

I still don't know what to change to make scavengers buildable.

...I'm guessing you didn't read Txt Editing like I told you to... <_<

I assume a string like in prresearch.txt:
R-Vehicle-Body02,R-Vehicle-Metals04,230

means the research topic for vehicle body 02 needs vehicle metals 04.

Yep.

and in research.txt:
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,Level One,0,0,IMAGE_RES_WEAPONTECH,0,0,RES_MG1MK1,0,MG1Mk1,WEAPON,60,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,2

can I duplicate that and take out MG1Mk1,WEAPON, and stick in B1BaBaPerson01,BODY ?

First of all, MG1Mk1,WEAPON just tells you what image to display for it (not what the result is; that, as I said, is done in resultcomponent.txt for cyborgs). Note that you cannot display cyborgs, tanks, scavs, or any other droid in it (ever wondered why the research image for Cyborg Transport is a VTOL, and the images for cyborgs are the corresponding weapons?)

Second, you need to change the research name, too, since it's a different research topic. From R-Wpn-MG1Mk1 to R-Cyb-Scavenger1 or something. Remember to add the corresponding row in messages/names.txt of what name to give it.

That's not all you have to do. You also have to update the price (60), change the first "1" after 60 to "0" and change "RES_MG1MK1" to "0" (since you aren't going to have a corresponding Intelligence screen for it), the IMAGE_RES_WEAPONTECH to something like IMAGE_RES_CYBORGTECH (that's the top right icon), the second "1" to the number of prerequisites it'll have, and the last "2" to "1" (That's the number of result components, more on that later).

You said enabling the body enables the template right?

Yeah, that's done in resultcomponent.txt. research.txt just tells you how many results it has in resultcomponent.txt

Then there is still the matter of where the template is built.... I assume a cyborg transport uses a template, as cyborgs do, and as the campaign vehicle transport does - clearly there must be something like a " produced by *structure name* " variable - where is that so I can make BaBaPeople buildable from a factory?

The template is in templates.txt; weapons are assigned in assignweapon.txt.

Nope; it goes by propulsions. Everything with "Cyborg Propulsion" (i.e. with a propulsion whose type is "Legged" in propulsion.txt) is built by a cyborg factory. It starts appearing in its corresponding factory (Legged -> borg factory, Lift -> VTOL factory, everything else -> factory) if 1. it's been designed, or 2. it's not designable, and its body has been enabled through resultcomponent.txt.

I was also looking at result component.txt it looks like it might be applicable.

I see:

"R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1-VTOL,WEAPON,0,0,10
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1Mk1,WEAPON,0,0,10"
and

"R-Vehicle-Body02,Body2SUP,BODY,0,0,2"

If it makes components available based on what was just researched, can I just add babaperson on the end like so:

R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1-VTOL,WEAPON,0,0,10
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,MG1Mk1,WEAPON,0,0,10
R-Wpn-MG1Mk1,B1BaBaPerson01,BODY,0,0,10

to enable the BaBaPerson body, which you said should enable the template that uses the body?

Change the last "10" to a "2". And change the "R-Wpn-MG1Mk1" to whatever your research item is going to be named ("R-Cyb-Scavenger1"?)

Then once again what defines where that template is built from?

Once again, it goes by propulsions. You enable the body, it checks to see if it's designable. If it is, it's available in the design screen. If it's not, it looks for the first template with that body and enables it. Then it puts that template in (Legged -> borg factory, Lift -> VTOL factory, everything else -> factory).

It would be really nice if there were a tutorial on how to make "template A" buildable after "Research B" at "Factory type C"

Whew. We don't have such a tutorial, but I think we do now. My post is like the entire tutorial.

I am going to do the same, and add the B1BaBaPerson01 body (as I noticed he had changed it so the standard scavenger infantry used a stronger body)

*edit* must have changed something else too, it crashes when I add the above to result component.txt
*further edit*, I changed the last variable from body05 in research text to 2, and only added 1 more component to result component.txt (R-Vehicle-Body05,FireBody,BODY,0,0,2), it didn't crash, but it didn't let me build fire trucks either.
I still don't know what to do.

Simply adding a scavenger factory in world edit doesn't allow you to make scavengers, does it?

As I said, I believe the scavenger would appear in cyborg factory menu after you research R-Vehicle-Body05 (Medium Body - Cobra).

Obviously adding B1BaBaPerson01 isn't going to make a scav fire truck appear anywhere. <_<

[3drts]

...I'm guessing you didn't read Txt Editing like I told you to...

I did, but as I said, I must be stupid, because I wasn't able to peice together what I had to do.

As I said, I believe the scavenger would appear in cyborg factory menu after you research R-Vehicle-Body05 (Medium Body - Cobra).

Obviously adding B1BaBaPerson01 isn't going to make a scav fire truck appear anywhere

Sorry for the long post, its understandable if you were skimming it. I started trying to make BaBaPeople, but then after whipper pointed me to the mod to use as a template, I opted instead to try for a firetruck to quote myself:

added 1 more component to result component.txt (R-Vehicle-Body05,FireBody,BODY,0,0,2), it didn't crash, but it didn't let me build fire trucks either.

I am somewhat confused now:

As I said, I believe the scavenger would appear in cyborg factory menu after you research R-Vehicle-Body05 (Medium Body - Cobra).

So then is all that above research stuff you were saying

change the "R-Wpn-MG1Mk1" to whatever your research item is going to be named ("R-Cyb-Scavenger1"?)
...
you need to change the research name, too, since it's a different research topic. From R-Wpn-MG1Mk1 to R-Cyb-Scavenger1 or something. Remember to add the corresponding row in messages/names.txt of what name to give it.

Is all that necessary - to make a research topic specifically to enable scav units, or can I simply tack it on to another research topic - like the cobra body or the machine gun?

[whippersnapper]

Simply adding a scavenger factory in world edit doesn't allow you to make scavengers, does it?

- Nope. You would have to place baba units as player allies unless you follow what BP did which unlocks Baba stuff when you research the "Cobra"** Body....... however...

- Placing a Baba Factory leads to some interesting stuff - at least to my warped PoV. When you click on the Baba Factory your build
reticule shows a truck. When you build that truck it can do anything a regular truck can do... It can also camo the Baba Factory as a Regular Factory which in effect creates a decoy.... lots of other undocumented stuff when you use baba this way in EW.. Also Baba Power Gen functions as a reg gen and trucks produced in Baba Factory can cap oil that is linked to that gen.

- Regards, whipper

added 1 more component to result component.txt (R-Vehicle-Body05,FireBody,BODY,0,0,2), it didn't crash, but it didn't let me build fire trucks either.

Did you do ALL the changes ? And then research the Cobra body ?

** Cobra = Body5REC

R-Vehicle-Body05,Level One,0,0,IMAGE_RES_DROIDTECH,0,0,RES_V_B05,0,Body5REC,BODY,1200,0,2,0,0,0,0,0,8


R-Vehicle-Body05,B4body-sml-trike01,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B3body-sml-buggy01,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B2JeepBody,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B3bodyRKbuggy01,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,B2RKJeepBody,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,BusBody,BODY,0,0,2
R-Vehicle-Body05,FireBody,BODY,0,0,2

[Zarel]

Is all that necessary - to make a research topic specifically to enable scav units, or can I simply tack it on to another research topic - like the cobra body or the machine gun?

If you just want to tack it on to another research topic, then you just need to add 1 to the number of result components and add one to the list. It's a lot easier.