Visibility and stealth

[Per]

Calling all arm chair generals! Please take some time to read http://wiki.wz2100.net/Visibility and add some comments in this thread. Thank you very much!

[Per]

By the way, here are two ECM turret graphics - one that cathuria made, and one that I found unused in the PIE directory in the game. You can see the original ECM turret on a droid now, too. I got it working in the design screen as well. However, the original model looks plan hillarious on a droid body  ::)

[DevUrandom]

Cathuria's looks way better.
Though it suggest a directed operation of the ECM, which your visibility wiki page does not suggest...
Though I find it difficult to imagine how an undirected ECM could look as cool as Cathuria's.

[Terminator]

ECM - good =) as for model .... I'm voting for Original theme.

[Deus Siddis]

After reading the wiki article I have a question about visibility-- What about line-of-sight, is this a factor in detection?

Unless the project has recruited post-nuclear mutants with gamma ray sensory organs, it would be kind of hard to see a tank column on the other side of a ridge or mountain, regardless of the other relevant factors (unless there is communication with a dedicated geosync recon satelitte).

[Per]

After reading the wiki article I have a question about visibility-- What about line-of-sight, is this a factor in detection?

Unless the project has recruited post-nuclear mutants with gamma ray sensory organs, it would be kind of hard to see a tank column on the other side of a ridge or mountain, regardless of the other relevant factors (unless there is communication with a dedicated geosync recon satelitte).

Yes. Good question, as I did not bring that up in the wiki article. The existing code already deals with line of sight, as you can see in the game. The EM visibility modes should of course also be affected by line of sight. The sonic visibility modes should not be.

[kage]

i should think the sonic visibility mode should be governed by reflection as well, in addition to basic diffusion: if, above a cliff on a mesa next to your sonic detector, there's a large army rolling by, it should be much more difficult to hear them, though if you're at the end of a long valley, you can hear it as soon as someone else enters that valley, if you've got sensitive enough detectors.

[DevUrandom]

Sonic sensors should get blocked by all droids, the louder the more. I.e. even by your own army, if you let it roll between your sensor and the enemy army.

[Deus Siddis]

Yes. Good question, as I did not bring that up in the wiki article. The existing code already deals with line of sight, as you can see in the game.

In game it always seemed like line of sight was a factor, but I thought it might have just been my imagination, since warzone is a decade old game.

So then how about greatly increasing Line of Sight detection ranges? With some balancing, doing so could offer a few very nice benefits:

1) More realistic. Less of units (including massive tanks) suddely appearing right in front of you.

2) Terrain becomes a bigger, much more interesting factor so that different terrain-related strategies and pro vs con considerations emerge.

For example, sending a tank column though a valley leaves few maneuvering options, but would then offer a very noticeable stealth advantage (no pun intended). Placing recon units and towers becomes a balance between not making them too obvious so that they are easily detected and giving them a good vantage point so that enemy units are easily detected. Fights on areas of expansive level ground would no longer be strangely claustraphobic as ordinary droids would no longer be able to simply hide in the open, they would see each other from great distances apart and react accordingly.

3) Cyborgs and to an extent VTOLs (and any light-bending or actively camoflaging ground droids) would finally get a big buff that they desperately seem to need as far as many are concerned. These units would have significant advantages over their heavier counterparts in stealth, given what it says in the wiki article and a great increase in LoS ranges. If combined with the ability to scale walls, Cyborgs would then have their place as a versatile, unique and effective type of unit.

[DevUrandom]

Line of sight could get more inaccurate if the ray is near to other obstacles (hide near to forrest, rocks, cliffs) and more accurate if it does not hit the ground (spot the siluette against the sky).
The first might be difficult to implement.

[psychopompos]

thats before you get into radio curving(defracting?) around objects, and back.

[NucNut]

I must say, i like the idea of cyborgs climbing the hardcrete walls, and blowing up tank traps for the tanks to get through...

Would finally give them a good use because, as is, you sneeze, they die.

[Deus Siddis]

I must say, i like the idea of cyborgs climbing the hardcrete walls, and blowing up tank traps for the tanks to get through...
Would finally give them a good use because, as is, you sneeze, they die.

Heh, I mostly meant the cliffside walls of terrain tile, but hardcrete walls too, perhaps with some sort of a booster/jump jet effect to make the animation quick, simple and clean.

[psychopompos]

Heh, I mostly meant the cliffside walls of terrain tile, but hardcrete walls too, perhaps with some sort of a booster/jump jet effect to make the animation quick, simple and clean.

wouldnt grapples be better?
would avoid the "why cant i make them fly all the time" question.
+ "jump cybers" where apparently, quite silly looking, when they where in the game.

[Deus Siddis]

wouldnt grapples be better?
would avoid the "why cant i make them fly all the time" question.
+ "jump cybers" where apparently, quite silly looking, when they where in the game.

The varying heights of hardcrete walls on different terrain might be an issue, but that might work with some effort put into tweaking the animation (probably codeside and artside). You want to avoid large parts of the cyborg very obviously going through the wall as he scales it- it'd look like a hack.