Simplifying map creation.

[Rommel]

The other day I tried to setup flame on my mac and failed miserably For the life of me I couldn't get the mono visual basic runtimes to install... and yes I read the install docs, but it just seemed to take me in circles and circles and in the end I just gave up.

I downloaded one of NoQs maps today to look at the file structure etc and I see a lot of it seems to be compiled and this gets me wondering if maps should have such a complicated structure - I can understand this with mods, but it seems that maps could be more simplified to basically be config type files - ie to give the co ordinates of things as well as their settings.

If this was the case it would seem to be quite easy to create a GUI to be able to generate these files from a visual interface. Also from what I hear there are sometimes new features added to WZ that are not supported by flame and this seems to be a problem, with a more simplified mapping framework it would seem to be more agile in regards to adding new features to a map creation GUI. A great way to make a true multiplatform map editor would be to have it as a web app, this would mean it would run properly for everyone and also be instantly updatable.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the work done with flame (even though I can't seem to work out how to use it!), but it seems to be the only option available to create maps and that means trouble if the developer decides to drop the project or does not keep up with WZ updates...

It also could be that I don't really get the simplicity from just looking at that map of NoQs as well...

[NoQ]

I couldn't get the mono visual basic runtimes to install...

This shouldn't be the problem. I could expect a problem of running FlaME after you installed mono, but mono is a well-made tool that should just work.

if the developer decides to drop the project

Already happened.

does not keep up with WZ updates...

Old maps will be supported anyway, so there's no problem if the editor creates old maps. But we already are in a situation when the game's map renderer is ahead of anything map editors provide; a new map editor and a new map format is necessary to unleash the whole power of the new 3.1 terrain renderer.

maps could be more simplified to basically be config type files

It is being worked on.

If this was the case it would seem to be quite easy to create a GUI to be able to generate these files from a visual interface.

Not really. Current map format isn't that hard to understand, but writing a full-featured GUI takes some time. You can see the incomplete map editor project by Emdek (which would really solve all the problems if ever completed), that already has map loading implemented, but not a full-featured GUI.

[Originway]

you can use dirama to make maps but it does have some bugs viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10805

[Rommel]

If there was no compiling and such required for map config files I would be happy to put hand to creating a web based gui - I understand that it wouldn't be easy as per the amount of work needed to be done in regards to creating the UI, but I think it would be possible.

I guess the real issue is that you wouldn't be able to preview the map and in regards to this is maybe better to have it on board wz it's self so that you could quickly preview what you are doing as you make the map - otherwise it is to much back and forth, ie exporting then loading in wz rinse and repeat...

[Rommel]

I couldn't get the mono visual basic runtimes to install...

This shouldn't be the problem. I could expect a problem of running FlaME after you installed mono, but mono is a well-made tool that should just work.

I thought this would be the case also, but after downloading from here:

http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html

Both the Intel Mac: Runtime and SDK I get this when trying to load it:

imac:flame user$ mono flame.exe
Missing method Int in assembly /Users/user/Flame/flame.exe, type Microsoft.VisualBasic.Conversion

Unhandled Exception:
System.TypeInitializationException: An exception was thrown by the type initializer for FlaME.modProgram ---> System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'Microsoft.VisualBasic, Version=10.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a' or one of its dependencies.
File name: 'Microsoft.VisualBasic, Version=10.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a'
at FlaME.clsBrush..ctor (Double InitialRadius, enumShape InitialShape) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at FlaME.modProgram..cctor () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
--- End of inner exception stack trace ---
[ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.TypeInitializationException: An exception was thrown by the type initializer for FlaME.modProgram ---> System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'Microsoft.VisualBasic, Version=10.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a' or one of its dependencies.
File name: 'Microsoft.VisualBasic, Version=10.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a'
at FlaME.clsBrush..ctor (Double InitialRadius, enumShape InitialShape) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at FlaME.modProgram..cctor () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
--- End of inner exception stack trace ---


I did look around to try and find the problem - found this page:

http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:OSX

which states:

Visit the download page to find the latest MacOS X package. Run it and follow the instructions there, you can either get a basic runtime, or a complete runtime plus a software development kit.

The download page just sends me back here: http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html

And I can't really see anything different and that page (http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:OSX) states that:

The Mono package includes:

The Mono Runtime
GUI Toolkits: Windows.Forms and Gtk# for OSX.
Note: the MonoMac GUI toolkit for native OSX GUI development is currently a separate download.
SDK: C#, Visual Basic compilers, assemblers and tools
XSP ASP.NET server
Manual pages.

So IDK what I am doing wrong...

[NoQ]

If there was no compiling and such required for map config files I would be happy to put hand to creating a web based gui - I understand that it wouldn't be easy as per the amount of work needed to be done in regards to creating the UI, but I think it would be possible.

Zipping and unzipping the file is trivial. In fact the current addons website already supports some simple checks that involve looking inside the map zip archive.
A few binary files that are still there in the current map format are quite trivial, you can easily understand them by looking into them in a hex editor and/or in game or FlaME sources.
The rest is ini's.