Defensive structure limit.

[ArmyofFire515]

Over the past year of playing warzone 2100 I have won games and lost games, but most of the time I've lost games, you want to know why?

Lines upon lines of mortar's and ripple rockets. Now I don't know about you but I find it incredibly annoying that I have a decent sized army rolling into battle and then have them all wiped out in seconds by a barrage of rockets just as they leave my base.

and NO I am not raging over it or anything, I am simply suggesting we limit the amount of defences we can have so the other players can have a chance to fight back and actually play the game like it should be.

[Emdek]

Extending structure limits has some advantages and drawbacks.
One limit for sum of different structures is bad idea, but extending current UI would make it too big...
Maybe as limits for class of weapon (artillery, rockets or emplacements, bunkers)?

[Iluvalar]

if there was oil distributed in that map, like it should, your opponent that sieged you in front of your door would have the capacity to win the game with the extra power. So you wouldn't be blocked in that odd situation.

When you play maps, where such stalemate are preprogrammed, don't complain when it happen .

[Jorzi]

That kind of strategy is fairly easily countered with vtol, tracked vehicles and cb sensor as well as having your own artillery...

Edit: And if your enemy controls more power than you and therefore can afford that amount of artillery, the problem is not the artillery.

[NoQ]

Old story, nothing new can be really said there. That's the first thing i started to talk about when i joined the forum (: Artillery is only overpowered on so-called high-oil maps. On thing i learned later is "Don't play tasteless maps with 40 oils at the base and you will see some real action without this sort of tasteless strategies" (:

[Terminator]

"Don't play tasteless maps with 40 oils at the base and you will see some real action without this sort of tasteless strategies" (:

weve
Can't say better . 100% Agree.

[Reg312]

(holy war)

2ArmyofFire515 if you limit artillery then you see unending game when you cannot destroy another defenses (like fortresses and hardpoints with long ranged weapons)
artillery war is interesting part of gameplay (especially in 2.3), you have first 30 minutes if you want win with your tank armies

2Jorzi most high-ol players play "no vtol"

2Iluvalar "oil distributed in that map, like it should" - wrong! such games with oil on bases have rights to be! not all players likes "oil micromanagement". they like build strong army and defenses and crush enemy, without boring micro-management and boring resource management. Such kind of games is normal gameplay, people like massive batalies! try remove high oil games and you will see half of player will leave WZ. why you cannot work to make game popular

2Emdek i dislike your idea "make game simplier" like SC limit by kind of weapons? better just(!) adjust build time of OP "high-oil" weapons in stats.

2NoQ "trucks race" and half-built derricks is another kind os tasteless strategy, happend in 100% "low oil" games
"find where is fk oil" + "avoid OP heavy mg towers"

2Terminator ...do you like preview map in god mode every time to remember map layout and placements of oil resources. do you like half-built derricks...

[NoQ]

"trucks race" and half-built derricks is another kind os tasteless strategy, happend in 100% "low oil" games
"find where is fk oil" + "avoid OP heavy mg towers"

Not really, both MG tower spam and extremely fast expands are easily countered/punished.

do you like preview map in god mode every time to remember map layout and placements of oil resources. do you like half-built derricks...

There are only around 10 good maps around, so it's easy to remember. It's not every time, it's just once. Also, no need to preview in god mode, cause it's already shown on preview in v3.1+

most high-ol players play "no vtol"

Then don't play "no vtol" ...

not all players likes "oil micromanagement". they like build strong army and defenses and crush enemy

Specially for those players ...

[Reg312]

"trucks race" and half-built derricks is another kind os tasteless strategy, happend in 100% "low oil" games
"find where is fk oil" + "avoid OP heavy mg towers"

Not really, both MG tower spam and extremely fast expands are easily countered/punished.

i did not meant "extremely fast expands". just normal expand requires ASAP getting oil and making half-built derricks everythere
if you did not sent 4th or 5th truck to get all possible oil as half-derricks you can lose fast.

MG tower spam can be counterer only by good fast player, so if one noob player know about OP MG towers and another noob player dont then first noob win in 100%
you need make special maps where oil spead through all places to prevent getting it with heavy MG towers
BUT next defenses not so strong and "decay" as Iluvalar said. so middle game defenses useless in such low oil maps
did you see games where player defend oil with med cannon hardpoints?

2Noq (2) : mod unlimited power is not high-oil games. do you know what in high-oil game power level always is on 0. if your power > 0 that mean you making something slow

2Noq (3): "dont play no vtol"? vtol is another OP thing when 1 vtol tank can destroy whole army.
idk why people dont like play with vtols, but they do

2Noq (4): 10 good maps? say it to hosters.. every map have rights to be played!
i had idea mark oil resource with textures, but no one map maker did this

[NoQ]

but no one map maker did this

I made some maps with special decals placed under oil resources.

say it to hosters..

No need, all hosters i know host only a few maps.

so if one noob player know about OP MG towers and another noob player dont then first noob win in 100%

A battle between noobs is always resolved by dice rolling; this doesn't make purely-anti-noob strategies overpowered.

do you know what in high-oil game power level always is on 0. if your power > 0 that mean you making something slow

I know, but haven't you just said people only like building tanks and defences and don't want to know a thing about economy?

"dont play no vtol"? vtol is another OP thing when 1 vtol tank can destroy whole army.
idk why people dont like play with vtols, but they do

Again, the problem here is mostly in high oil and not in VTOLs or arty. Anyway, i'd prefer a VTOL game to a no-VTOL game on high oil any time; VTOL bombs seem to be easier to counter, they even have some nice hard counters (eg., air-to-air weapons).

[Terminator]

2Terminator ...do you like preview map in god mode every time to remember map layout and placements of oil resources. do you like half-built derricks...

Well I dont bother about knowing oil location on map if I play for a first time. Usually I scout & play for fun. Of course if play in ladder games I'm sure you will know the map by tiles. I think its become an issue fro those who wants to win all online games.

I think if to add feature that shows oil on minimap this solves a problem, but long time ago per has made it & it was criticized by community for some buggs & patch was reveted. But with 3.1 we may ask for its comeback

Anyway as for topic theme: I think & I'm offering it for a long time, to use a Command relay center for units limit, but it could be extended to units + structures limits...Hmm I like it. If you build tons of arty so you cant have any combat units cause all controlling power spends on def. structures....like that How about that ?

[Reg312]

No need, all hosters i know host only a few maps.

We played that ffa game on map "Source".... good example of map which cannont be played without preview
and good example of map which gives DISadvantage to players who new on this map
again, for new player all these maps are very hard and no fun here for new players.

resolved by dice rolling; this doesn't make purely-anti-noob strategies overpowered.

Why heavy mg tower accesible when HMG not researched?
dice rolling.. i've played duel games yesterday against good player. for me all this was also dice rolling! a bit more lucky or do something a bit different and you win!

i'd prefer a VTOL game to a no-VTOL game on high oil any time; VTOL bombs seem to be easier to counter, they even have some nice hard counters (eg., air-to-air weapons).

vtol hard to counter..
1) if you late in AA research for 1-2 minute you can lost base from 1st vtol attack
2) vtol have high production rate. you should make AA all time to counter vtols
and only later when AA became good researched you can counter vtols more easier
3) upd: i tested air-to-air weapons, it seems useless, need also bunch of AA.
air-to-air weapons have bad accuracy and they have same speed as bombers

and problem in fact what any army can be cleared with vtols.. 5000 damage from 1 bomb, vtos player just sacrifice 1 vtol and his enemy lost 5-10 units

i prefer non-vtol games because artillery much easier to counter

If you build tons of arty so you cant have any combat units cause all controlling power spends on def. structures....like that How about that ?

sounds good. but unlimited units makes game laggy
but increasiing unit limit and leave trucks limit as it is - is good idea
there is few ways how unit limit can be implemented.. BUT seems developers did not care about high oil games
they want make game simplier and they dont like any new options, and they think what high-oil games is just crap[/s] flate noobs games which should not to be.. i

[Emdek]

Reg312, how can I propose to make it similar to StarCraft when I've not played it.
Those are mostly obvious things, and all can be optional.

[zydonk]

There was a limit of sorts. I hit it once years ago when I tried to build my 1001st missile tower (big map, 7 AI active, difficult level - I sweated blood in that one). I assume this limit holds for arty as well.

As for hi-oil - no one has to play them. And remember, hi-oil benefits everyone, not just the guys who are kicking you. (I think we've had this discussion before.)

[Iluvalar]

2Iluvalar "oil distributed in that map, like it should" - wrong! such games with oil on bases have rights to be! not all players likes "oil micromanagement". they like build strong army and defenses and crush enemy, without boring micro-management and boring resource management. Such kind of games is normal gameplay, people like massive batalies! try remove high oil games and you will see half of player will leave WZ. why you cannot work to make game popular

Oh yeah, they have the right to be a stalling game with no research layer. . But STOP attacking me for that . You must understand that half the players DONT LIKE such stalling game. When you dont like that the game stall like that, dont play such map. (or do like me and force everygame you play in such map to evolve otherwise).