1x1 maps

[NoQ]

The maps in this list are extremely good, but i still want to criticize them.

Startup - unbalanced.
Highground - too small, heavily unbalanced.
BP's Highground2 - still too small and truck rushy.
Roughness - overoiled.
Vision - too wide, overpowers flamers, too large.
Contention - chokes are too narrow, too large.
River_v2h - overdrummed, hard to learn.

Do you agree with this criticism? Does a more-or-less-perfect 1x1 map actually exist, that could become a standard? I want to make one, but i feel as if i failed so far.

[test]

variety =/= problem.. tehre is no 1 'best' map..

[NoQ]

Yeah, i know, and it's really good that all these variations exist; i'm just looking for maps that won't be criticized that obviously.

There are a few maps of mine that i didn't play much so far: Yeti, Sunlight, Marble. Even though there's not much thought in them, i don't (yet?) see any obvious defects

[effigy]

Good analysis NoQ

Roughness has been my favorite 1v1 map since it was released, though I admit I rarely cap any of the 4 oil on the mountain tops (I'm just too lazy to send a unit up to kill trees unless I feel I'm really hurting for oil). 2 Oil in the scav corners might be over kill (just 1 there would be good), but I really think it's a very well done map.

I haven't played the others you mention much either, though I've played the 4p Yeti map quite a bit. Just looking at Yeti and oil placement I would expect it to play much the same as HighGround (rush to mid, I wonder if that's what I meant in my review).

[Iluvalar]

You analysis is perfect and I can't think of a decent 1x1 map for now. I would do it myself if i find one . Here is my analysis as well. 1v1 map are too small. They follow the same rules then the others as we dont want games to last too long. Specialy if one side is about to lose. Therefore we are a bit doomed with small maps. Unfortunately, the tech tree, while it offer a large variety of choice overall, gives a really small amount of them. With a good given timing.

Therefore specificities of the maps determine most of the time one, if we are lucky two, real good research branch. That goes one step downward and "infect" the exact build orders and trucks movement sequences to a ridiculously small amount of functionnal one. We end up learning the optimal behavior for a specific maps with real low numbers of real events and no external force that can impact on it.

I already hear the cry of some 1v1 lovers, but i'll conclude by saying that it slide the game from a "brain" one, with reaction and quick thinking to a "memory" one where I feel like we are chimps in a vivarium that only need to immitate the "good" behavior as much as he can remember.

[zydonk]

You analysis is perfect and I can't think of a decent 1x1 map for now. I would do it myself if i find one . Here is my analysis as well. 1v1 map are too small. They follow the same rules then the others as we dont want games to last too long. Specialy if one side is about to lose. Therefore we are a bit doomed with small maps. Unfortunately, the tech tree, while it offer a large variety of choice overall, gives a really small amount of them. With a good given timing.

Therefore specificities of the maps determine most of the time one, if we are lucky two, real good research branch. That goes one step downward and "infect" the exact build orders and trucks movement sequences to a ridiculously small amount of functionnal one. We end up learning the optimal behavior for a specific maps with real low numbers of real events and no external force that can impact on it.

I already hear the cry of some 1v1 lovers, but i'll conclude by saying that it slide the game from a "brain" one, with reaction and quick thinking to a "memory" one where I feel like we are chimps in a vivarium that only need to immitate the "good" behavior as much as he can remember.

Chess is a "memory" game, does that mean is should be left for monkeys to play?

As for "reaction and quick thinking": these are required in an RTS only if you have made a mistake - you're supposed to be planning strategically. Whether quickie mp games are strictly RTS - rather than the equivalent of a "sugar" rush - is open to question. If you want r + q-t, then an FPS might suit you better - though most FPSs are little more than cinematic rat mazes now. But try STALKER with the Oblivion Lost mod.

NoQ - I assume you've rated the 2player maps for mp, where balance is felt to be important. From a sk point of view, the early Pumpkin maps make for good gameplay, tho' I use them now mostly for testing new mods. But I've taken effigy's recommendation for roughness on board and will dload a copy for future used (four hours into a busy 8player sk at the moment)...

[devastator]

Variety of maps makes different strategies useble. Truckrushy?Truck actions(rly lots of them, since oils are the only one thing worth of fast interupting, one of most exciting things at wz), too wide?Hi-tech posible, small narows?Defensive one but with middle entrance as well.. I prefer to any new 1v1 map to be absolutely different from all others

[McCoy]

What's wrong with Startup?

[NoQ]

What's wrong with Startup?

Asymmetric. See this video for a nice exploit.

[Merowingg]

hey there is no map by me here

heheheheheheh sorry I couldnt stop myself

well I agree it is amazingly hard to decide which map of any players number or kind is the best..

too or shall I say tooooo many factors always taken into account by various people.. so how to define unique..

[Boris]

what is problem?

[NoQ]

I'm looking for a map such that if someone wins on this map, he can be considered to actually be a better player. Such a map should not involve any obviously-winning strategy, because otherwise this map will check the knowledge of this particular strategy rather that the general game skill. Such map should also be symmetric for convenience, because you need to play 2x more games on an asymmetric map (:

Currently, i think this map to be one of the best.

hey there is no map by me here

Mero_OvalTrap - truck rushy
Mero_Lake - overpowers hovers
Mero_MagicPond - too small, overoiled

[devastator]

Those Outskirts were made cause I asked for them for 1v1 tournament..the author rly tried to fit the event, that's why it makes such impression. Sad that event didn't take place ever..

[Merowingg]

NoQ I do hope you were aware that I was kidding about my 1v1 ones, but thanx for abbreviating their nature one thing I have learned from this is that I dint know Magic Pond is overpowered, and even if it is.. you know how hard it is for me to lower oil number

The 1v1 by me are overwhelmed but other maps so I dare to admit those are my weakest somehow

But as they say the more you practice the better you are