Massive Conquer the World (Or almost) Campaign

[DTSX]

Well not really rescripted but I was playing Rise of Nations and Civ 4 today, only to wonder what WZ2100 would be like if there was a sort of Conquer the World game version of it. Like you actually go across the US trying to create your own nation.

[Lancefighter]

well theory states that you would need an overlay of some sort (the map), a collection of combat maps, and, probably the hard part, some method of actually rewarding the player for doing things.

In dawn of war II, dark crusade there was something like this. The player had a map, and they moved across it to conquer it. it was nonlinear and all, so you could choose where to go.. and each area had something associated with it. Many of them simply let you start with an additional squad of some sort, however one would let you start with more resources, or one lets you start with additional structures. Of course, in dawn of war the tech tree is very simple.....

If it was done similarly to the campaign, you would generally go around looking for artifacts. Im sure there are enough us-divisions to allow the player to choose what way he wants to go through the campaign, but how the artifacts are distributed might be the difficult part.

[Assault Gunner]

What, you mean like the StarCraft 2 campaign? It's the most recently released game with a campaign with multiple tracks. There are few instances of "one or the other", but the few incidences that there are are very important to campaign gameplay.

Plus, if it was possible to make separate stats for campaign and MP that would be awesome. If it isn't, that sucks, but oh well. Of course, if there were campaign-only upgrades... could add a lot of replay value.

Heck, I can write out the campaign, I just need someone else to actually help with the coding part. Even without the campaign-only upgrades, though, I wouldn't mind writing a new campaign, including special turrets, arty, etcetera.

[DTSX]

Before we try figuring things out, is this even possible?

[Rman Virgil]

Before we try figuring things out, is this even possible?

Yes. WZ Cam Scripting is quite powerful & most what is described above can be done. It would be much more work than the original cam scripting. Probably take a couple proficient scriptors, at least if it were to see the light of day anytime soon. Have to remember too that WZ script is gonna be replaced by LUA and the auto-conversion tool will not make for a perfect translation & stuff will have to be gone over again by "hand".

In the end it may be more feasible to do it all in LUA from jump. Maybe something one of the developers could weigh-in on.

.

[DTSX]

Yeah I mean I already understood this would only be possible/done after WZ is scripted in LUA. Is it possible to take XML data from other games or no? If you consider the simplicity of Rise of Nations, then the whole "conquer the world" map is basically, move Army to Area, then begin the battle.

Conceptually it is very similar in that it has very minimal graphics and one unit attacking per turn.

[Rman Virgil]

.

Hmmm..

Sorry I didn't percieve your total knowledge of LUA in the context of it not being raised at all.

Multiple Paths or branching missions is not easy & that was mostly what I was speaking to in terms of work & difficulty when YOU asked if any of this was possible.

I also did not get you were proposing plagiarizing another game.

Yuck & icky. Done.

.

[DTSX]

-.- I don't know anything about any coding...

Just asking a question, but I didn't mean a multiple path or branching mission system. I literally meant a giant board with a bunch of provinces on it. Then you can just slowly try taking the map against a computer or multiple computer opponents.

And the XML file wasn't to be copied, it was just to be used as reference.

[Lancefighter]

Theory would state it possible.. Given that...
a) you could script the exact starting technologies of a game
b) you could script pretty much everything else about the tech tree - Stopping it at so far to force you to find the artifacts
c) you could make a simple UI with a bunch of squares that you can click on.....
d) you could script the starting tanks of any given game
and e) you could save/load those somewhere.

Given some lua experience, im assuming you could do all of the above - ignoring the fact that there is any 'campaign' or anything, it should be simple - you click on province 1, you get a 1v1 vs a new paradigm opponent (is it possible to allow, or force, the ai to only use a lineup of bodies? id assume their tech tree can be manipulated as much as yours can)
At the end, one of their research buildings, or something.. maybe it could be scripted so they start with a tank that drops the artifact (so your not entirely behind the entire game... like the one mission where you have to stop the heavy cannon tank from flying away, and the heavy cannon tank drops the heavy cannon artifact)

Given that /all/ of that can be done through lua scripting, with an external file serving as record keeper...
Also, somehow I doubt it would be at all possible to use rise of nations files in warzone, even if you could load the file somehow. its just not the same engine..

[Luigi]

wz2100 in a adventure?!
If the warzone had a BIG and GREAT adventure in the campaign, many people would play this game.

[DTSX]

Ah, sorry if I wasn't clear on the whole "copy" Rise of Nations... Basically, what I wanted to copy was the way they approached it and how it was edited in.

Theory would state it possible.. Given that...
a) you could script the exact starting technologies of a game

What I think should be done is that there should be both a base-line, i.e. you start with a number of technologies based on how many turns have passed, and a limiter, i.e. if you're on turn one, you can't even reach mortars.

b) you could script pretty much everything else about the tech tree - Stopping it at so far to force you to find the artifacts

Exactly. The goal of this game would be to try and take as many artifacts as possible to improve your tech tree. Then the limiter would kick in once you reached a certain point.

c) you could make a simple UI with a bunch of squares that you can click on.....

What Rise of Nations does is that the map that is made is entirely based on just that. As long as each "province" is differently colored than the other one, then it would end up functioning in the game. The key in the game is that none of the colors can be even a shade different from the next.

d) you could script the starting tanks of any given game

How about you're given a few of those giant transport planes, depending on how many "LZ"s you captured on the main map. Then you can transport premade units over. This would heavily emphasize stronger units.

and

e) you could save/load those somewhere.

And this is where I'm not sure...


What I see is that certain areas or conditions can be made, allowing the player to play pre-built maps. Of course any time you play a certain map, all your buildings and units are going to remain there, so if you end up on the defense, you're pretty well set up. The biggest problem I foresee is how you will code the AI.

[Lancefighter]

Yeah i agree with pretty much all of that.. except..

How would transport missions work? thats actually a really awesome idea(and makes loads of sense), but in the campaign on an away mission you cant build base structures, which imo is bad. ... although, the 'alpha -> beta' transition and the other one to gamma do let you, so it might be able to work that any mission has the collection of all tanks in other provinces available for transport?

That would have to be some key idea.. or perhaps just you move over 10 tanks and thats that? no reinforcements, just 10 tanks and whatever base you can build?
It would kinda be interesting if everything was based out of a single map (like say, you were given an entire map to sprawl on and build stuff, and to send away missions you click on the 'intel' button in the bottom left, pick 10 tanks, and be off?

What about defensive missions? When they attack you,will it be 'send 10 tanks to defend' as well? Most importantly - can the map and the structures you have built be kept? these bits are important bits....

One way i could think of is that in campaign, (especially during gamma after the nuke steals your toplevel troops) the campaign map becomes the square below your main map, but your artillery on the gamma base map can still fire south... remember that? If it were done in such a way that each map was far enough away from each other (so artillery couldnt fire), but your operational area would be limited to a square of turf to fight over. Im probably just kinda rambling here, and theres probably a much easier way...

As for capturable lzs meaning more tanks, this is also probably a good plan, but i also probably wouldnt place them on your mainbase map, but instead a method similar to how in campaign your map expands.. you could launch an 'away mission' to the province directly adjacent to your own, and it would just expand the operational area of your main base.. and the main targets would be scavs im guessing

As for the AI.. well im thinking standard skirmish AI. Based on the 'defenselevel' of the province, and perhaps some modifier by how long the province has been held. As for attacking.. well..I think it would be fairly easy to setup how the ai works on the campaign map (attack random province adjacent to yours, roll for attackpower, roll for defensepower, winner wins map) Starting tanks could easily be a scripted set of 6tanks and 4 trucks or something, scripted to be whatever the 'best' type available is.. i hardly think the ai scripting will be difficult, certainly not compared to what else is going on

Right! ive hypothesized enough. When the switch to lua is made, i might be able to be convinced to do something to help out such a mod project, but id rather not get into some other method of scripting that i will just have to convert later.

[DTSX]

Ah great! This massive project will be both a great element and a difficult thing to do...

For the transport missions to work, I was thinking that we'd have the whole Alpha -> Beta -> Gamma, but there would be a large number of them and all of the them persistent. So we'd get anything from Gamma to Omega, except we'd probably have to label them differently

As for reinforcements, you could constantly filter units in, but the reason I made LZ points was that I was thinking the more LZ points you have, the more units you can send over at a time. 2 LZ points = 2 transports. Also, since each "province" is a potential base, it would be possible to send trucks to build things, but again, the limiters would be in place so that you would be limited to a number of buildings depending on the map. For example, just for the hell of it, let's say one "province" was so heavily affected by nuclear radiation that the only way you can actually fight the other person is via VTOLs. Then in another one, the fog is so bad that artillery is out of commission. I want scenarios like that.

Then there is the factor of "fortifications." If you control a fortification, you cannot build trucks, but rather it will be a pre-fabricated fortress that has insane health. For the attacker, he/she cannot build, but must send massive numbers of units to destroy a command post that links all the buildings together- all in a time limit of course. Every time the fortification map is played, the buildings are all refreshed. I imagine fortification games will be for getting very important techs or are placed in choke-points (on the large map)

Another scenario I was thinking is that you could choose to "build up" a province by playing in that province for a period of time, allowing you to either bulk up defenses or make new units. Every map and every game will have a time limit. If the attacker does not succeed within that time limit, the attacker loses.

Also, just for the hell of it, whenever you try to improve a province, scavs will constantly raid your lands, much like a tower defense (this was done in another topic), just so you don't think you can camp one area and make it out alive. The scavs will eventually turn into stronger tanks.

Though I would absolutely love the whole 4X method where the campaign map is the large map and you can go between provinces, and then within provinces in each part, I think the sheer number of resources a computer need to play it would be extremely prohibitive.

--- In order to recreate things like Gamma happening, whether this is implemented or not, a sudden "event" will happen where your provinces are being overrun. The only thing you can do at that point is constantly attack in a straight line, building, then evacuating, making a bullrush for the Nexus center. You could even add a storyline where the Laser Sat system is there and your HQ is at risk of being obliterated, along with the Project if you don't get there in time.

[Assault Gunner]

Let me worry about the storyline, alright? I promise to post it up here as soon as I finish it. But first, I want to hear if the devs mind or what.

[DTSX]

Wait, storyline? The whole point of this "campaign" is to completely forego a storyline and just take over the new world.