Weapon balancing suggestion

[Verin]

Reduce flamer cyborg damage and or burn damage.

Just a bout 80% of the game i have one were due to simply mass producing flamer borgs, researching fire. and going all out offense. also, these units have a penetration ability, allowing them to hit large groups easily- something multilayer has often.

Now i know what your going to say: " You can do that by mass producing and researching any cyborg/tank" I tried this before i posted this post in 2 games, once using cannons and once using machine guns. Both times my units were not able to inflict enough damage on either the enemy tracked tanks (mg) or the cyborgs (cannon)

I see a few options here, all easy to edit without major programming issues.

Reduce damage slightly
Reduce burn time and burn damage
increase production time slightly
reduce hp a bit further

Don't give me scenarios about artillery and ground shakers because most games I play this way average an end at 18-22 minutes, seriously. Mortars do make it difficult, but they can still overwhelm them.

Again this is a suggestion, changing this would eliminate a strategy of mine, but it would also stop the overall flamer borg spam found in about 2/3 matches.

Furthermore if you take a look at the damage tables, the flamer does nearly 100% on tanks over 100% on hovers (commonly used) and over 100% on cyborgs (also commonly used) they demolish bunkers very quickly, a common defense, and with the shear amount of them, can even demolish hard walls in a mere 5-10 seconds.

I would like to use tanks, but whenever i don't flame borg rush, the opponent does.

[Zarel]

Interestingly, I've heard "this weapon is overpowered" from practically every weapon. If flamer is OP, it isn't overwhelmingly so. After all, MG, one of the most common earlygame weapons, is a good flamer counter.

[Verin]

I completely agree, but even on mg based opponents ( several times ) i have gotten past thier Mg's because the flamers destroyed them so quickly. they were also outpaced as 1 flamer shot burned and hit multiple units.

[Black Project]

To solve this issue, it's simple: remove the penetration ability of all flamers (Flame-Throwers)

There's no need to nerf them, they were even more powerful in older releases

They're already powerful at close range (like a 12 Gauge Shotgun), why make them to penetrate? If it's just for realism, then that doesn't make sense, since Warzone 2100 is not a war simulation

To counter those pesky cyborg flamers, make sure your MGs are upgraded in terms of damage & rate-of-fire.

The Heavy Machinegun is your best friend to counter them, combined with fast Half-Tracked Cobra tank and a bit of micromanagement. After you get Assault Gun, they're screwed up

To counter flamer tanks, Pod-Rocket + it's mini-rocket upgrades is the way to go, since it's a AT weapon

Regards BP

[Zarel]

You can outrun flamer tanks with most weapons; so it doesn't even matter at that point. S'all about the micro.

Flamers penetrate for weapon uniqueness reasons as well as realism. We are unrealistic only in places where realism would make the game less fun, and I do not think flamers are so unbalanced that that is the case.

Incidentally, a change in the way burn damage is calculated in 2.3.2 will make flamers a fair bit weaker, so that should solve your more immediate concerns.

[Ubermad]

i played against my brother who rushed with 20 flamer cyborgs after 20-25min into the game. my Mortars and HMG Tanks shredded them like schweizer cheese. a planned defense can and will withstand many things...

[Black Project]

i played against my brother who rushed with 20 flamer cyborgs after 20-25min into the game. my Mortars and HMG Tanks shredded them like schweizer cheese. a planned defense can and will withstand many things...

I agree with that

BP

[Verin]

i played against my brother who rushed with 20 flamer cyborgs after 20-25min into the game. my Mortars and HMG Tanks shredded them like schweizer cheese. a planned defense can and will withstand many things...

20 cyborgs is an extremely pathetic cyborg army... you cna make 20 in a mere few minutes.

I usually hit them with 100-150, and with those numbers, and the penetration ability, it makes them the best unit army in early mid game.

[zydonk]

Build flamer bunkers. You'll find the AI stays away from them. Back them up with mg and later rockets, so you can cut the attacker to pieces while the flamer keeps them at bay. Also, staggering defences - fixed or mobile - helps a lot, with each line of defence absorbing so much of the attack.

But the flamer should remain much as it is. Once range weapons are developed, the flamers are less of a threat. A decent WZ game should last 5 to 7 hours. Anything less is like pe. What's the rush? It's a game after all.

[Verin]

Build flamer bunkers. You'll find the AI stays away from them. Back them up with mg and later rockets, so you can cut the attacker to pieces while the flamer keeps them at bay. Also, staggering defences - fixed or mobile - helps a lot, with each line of defence absorbing so much of the attack.

But the flamer should remain much as it is. Once range weapons are developed, the flamers are less of a threat. A decent WZ game should last 5 to 7 hours. Anything less is like pe. What's the rush? It's a game after all.

5-7 hours....
are you insane?


it was just a thought, ill continue to abuse this exploit.

[Ubermad]

5-7 hours....
are you insane?

a very balanced game can go on for many hours. my top is 6 hours
my brother somehow managed to keep my forces at bay, which he never have done before and hopefully never will again

[Zarel]

a very balanced game can go on for many hours. my top is 6 hours

Let me guess, it was a high oil map? That's not a balanced game. <_<

[Ubermad]

a very balanced game can go on for many hours. my top is 6 hours

Let me guess, it was a high oil map? That's not a balanced game. <_<

i don't know if sk_mizamaze is classified as high oil

[Verin]

That explains it, you played a map that takes 10 minutes to get a force to the enemy. Byt then the enemy has created more advanced defense as your 10 minute ago tanks arrive.

[Zarel]

Actually, MizaMaze is a fairly small map. All I can say in cases like that is that none of you were playing very aggressively.