Improvments for the research UI

[mrvn]

Hi,

I noticed things that should be easy to improve for research:

1) When multiple research centers are idle and one selects a research topic for one the menu should remain open with the next idle research center activated.

2) When opening the reserach menu the next idle center should become active, not the last one.

3) When the research menu is open and a research completes often a new topic is inserted into the menu. That causes other icons to shift around and it is easy to click on the wrong thing. Maybe new topics should always be inserted at the end of the list or only when the menu is reopened.

MfG
Mrvn

[JDW]

3) When the research menu is open and a research completes often a new topic is inserted into the menu. That causes other icons to shift around and it is easy to click on the wrong thing. Maybe new topics should always be inserted at the end of the list or only when the menu is reopened.

Not really sure about the third one. It's true that the shifted icons cause a disturbance in your memory of the list. However IMHO, the upgrades are placed in the order of categories, which kind of makes it easier to browse through.

Hi,
1) When multiple research centers are idle and one selects a research topic for one the menu should remain open with the next idle research center activated.

2) When opening the reserach menu the next idle center should become active, not the last one.

Definitely good ideas. Both of them. Fewer clicks to get the job done, making the game experience less annoying.

[mrvn]

3) When the research menu is open and a research completes often a new topic is inserted into the menu. That causes other icons to shift around and it is easy to click on the wrong thing. Maybe new topics should always be inserted at the end of the list or only when the menu is reopened.

Not really sure about the third one. It's true that the shifted icons cause a disturbance in your memory of the list. However IMHO, the upgrades are placed in the order of categories, which kind of makes it easier to browse through.

That is fine. If you (re)open the menu or switch between tabs the list can be updated. The problem arises when you decide to research something, your finger starts to move downwards and then the icon shifts and you click on the wrong thing.



Earlier tonight I had to check something in Freeciv and that reminded me how their tech works. For those not familiar with it in Freeciv you have a current research and a goal. The goal can be some future tech, at most 10 steps (as in levels of the tech tree) away, that will take multiple steps to research and every time something finishes it automatically starts on the next step towards this goal until the goal is reached. That greatly reduces the amount of micromanagement you need to do to research something specific. It also means you don't have to know all the little steps inbetween, something that is nearly impossible with the amount of techs warzone2100 has. You can also decide to research something else outside the goal by altering the research and once that is done it will return to researching for the goal.

To give a practical example imagine you are playing, developing your base and happily building ground units and suddenly an enemy VTOL craft attacks. Now you are in a big rush to build some anti aircraft sites. You would just open the tech tree, locate the defense structure you want and set that as a goal. The AI would then automatically start idle research centers on the techs needed to achieve that goal. After that you can worry about protecting your base with mobile units and repairing damage as best as you can without distractions from the research.

Imho there should be only one goal and all research centers pitch in towards that goal and research as many items in parallel as they can. If not enough items can be researched in parallel then some research center stays idle and the user can research something manually there (the research button would blink like it does now when a center is idle).

MfG
Mrvn

[duckblaster]

great ideas, very useful

[Per]

Note that the AI already works with research goals, not individual research items. So the plumbing code for this is already there.

However, if we were to have a GUI for this, I'd definitely like to be able to set a goal for each research lab. That retains some essential flexibility. If you need to focus everything on one goal, you can set each research centre to the same goal - and perhaps this can be the default when you pick a goal and your research labs have no goal set.

[JDW]

3) When the research menu is open and a research completes often a new topic is inserted into the menu. That causes other icons to shift around and it is easy to click on the wrong thing. Maybe new topics should always be inserted at the end of the list or only when the menu is reopened.

Newly available Research technologies displayed only on reopen would be a bad idea. A eager gamer waiting for a certain upgrade would keep opening and closing the research GUI hoping to see a refresh in the list, which would be more of a frustrating experience. There must be a better way to solve your problem.

[JDW]

Note that the AI already works with research goals, not individual research items. So the plumbing code for this is already there.

Thank you Pumpkin Studios?

[KenAlcock]

3) When the research menu is open and a research completes often a new topic is inserted into the menu. That causes other icons to shift around and it is easy to click on the wrong thing. Maybe new topics should always be inserted at the end of the list or only when the menu is reopened.

Not really sure about the third one. It's true that the shifted icons cause a disturbance in your memory of the list. However IMHO, the upgrades are placed in the order of categories, which kind of makes it easier to browse through.

Josh, I believe you missed his main point--when the displayed tech list updates just as the user attempts to click on one technology, an unwanted technology is selected instead. It's not about memorizing where things are on the list. The list updates while the user is in the act of clicking the mouse, so the new tech is selected, not the one the user actually wanted. This can happen frequently, even in skirmish, since the user could have 5 research facilities cranking out technology. But it's much worse in multiplayer games, since list updates are more frequent and you end up selecting a technology a teammate is already researching. In MP, this can end up wasting your power resources. And it's a real issue.

IMO, the list should not be updated until the user clicks on the research facility icon again. That would solve the problem.

[KenAlcock]

Note that the AI already works with research goals, not individual research items. So the plumbing code for this is already there.

However, if we were to have a GUI for this, I'd definitely like to be able to set a goal for each research lab. That retains some essential flexibility. If you need to focus everything on one goal, you can set each research centre to the same goal - and perhaps this can be the default when you pick a goal and your research labs have no goal set.

I like the sound of this approach. You end up getting the best of both worlds--one shared goal or 5 individual goals.

[JDW]

Josh, I believe you missed his main point-...

I did get his point, I only wasn't agreeing with the solutions that he provided to fix the problem that he mentioned.

3) When the research menu is open and a research completes often a new topic is inserted into the menu. That causes other icons to shift around and it is easy to click on the wrong thing. Maybe new topics should always be inserted at the end of the list or only when the menu is reopened.

Newly available Research technologies displayed only on reopen would be a bad idea. A eager gamer waiting for a certain upgrade would keep opening and closing the research GUI hoping to see a refresh in the list, which would be more of a frustrating experience. There must be a better way to solve your problem.

[mrvn]

3) When the research menu is open and a research completes often a new topic is inserted into the menu. That causes other icons to shift around and it is easy to click on the wrong thing. Maybe new topics should always be inserted at the end of the list or only when the menu is reopened.

Newly available Research technologies displayed only on reopen would be a bad idea. A eager gamer waiting for a certain upgrade would keep opening and closing the research GUI hoping to see a refresh in the list, which would be more of a frustrating experience. There must be a better way to solve your problem.

Then the user is stupid. Sorry but it is true. When a research finishes you get a message. I think you even get a different message when a finished research adds new research options. So you know the exact time when a new option is/can be added. So the eager user only need to refresh the list once per finished research.

What happens to me is that I'm waiting for some research center to finish so I can start the next one and I have already checked all the possibilities and picked the one I want and are just waiting to click on it. Then the icon moves.

There could be 3 more supple variations to my suggested soluton:

1) When the mouse hovers inside the research menu / over an icon then the list is not updated.

2) The new icon is added imediatly but in such a way that the icon under (near) the mouse does not move. This might mean a new tab gets created, at least temporarily, before the active tab and the active tab indicator shifts to the second one.

3) There could be a small indicator indicating new icons would be added when the menu is refreshed.

MfG
Mrvn

[JDW]

When a research finishes you get a message. I think you even get a different message when a finished research adds new research options. So you know the exact time when a new option is/can be added. So the eager user only need to refresh the list once per finished research.

Let's consider this scenario. The gamer has got 5 research facilities. The 1st facility finishes research and message arrives that a new tech is available, gamer opens research menu, then within a few seconds the 2nd facility finishes researching and message arrives that a new tech is available, gamer wants to know what it is and has to close the menu and reopen it to see the updated list, again the 3rd facility finishes it's research within seconds and message arrives that a new tech is available, the gamer would again need to reopen the just reopened menu, and so on. Do you see how frustrating that would be?

1) When the mouse hovers inside the research menu / over an icon then the list is not updated.

How is the gamer to know that? Should there be a message on the screen "Please move the mouse out of the research menu to update the list" ? In my opinion, this isn't a good design.

2) The new icon is added imediatly but in such a way that the icon under (near) the mouse does not move. This might mean a new tab gets created, at least temporarily, before the active tab and the active tab indicator shifts to the second one.

This seems like a best solution out of all that you have provided so far.

3) There could be a small indicator indicating new icons would be added when the menu is refreshed.

Again manually having to refresh the menu is an undesired annoyance.

Another option would be to lock the menu moments (milliseconds) before the list gets updated. Thus if you're about to click on an icon, and a research is going to be available soon, the menu would be locked, and even if you clicked, nothing would happen, the list would get updated and then unlocked for you to pick the tech that you want to research. However, locking the menu down briefly would be troublesome when techs become available just seconds behind each other, causing the menu to be locked down for much longer or frequently, but it would stop accidental clicks on a undesired tech.
EDIT: This solution seems like it could be a frustrating experience for the gamer.

[mrvn]

Clicks being ignored already is anoying. I don't yet know when it happens but I do see the menus (in general) flicker when an event happens. Might just be that the click happens when the menu is temporarily empty. Might also be that I accidentally moved the mouse one pixel while clicking and the UI interprets that as draging and draging does nothing on a button.

Anyway, no thank you. Don't start ignoring clicks any more.

MfG
Mrvn

[JDW]

Clicks being ignored already is anoying. I don't yet know when it happens but I do see the menus (in general) flicker when an event happens. Might just be that the click happens when the menu is temporarily empty. Might also be that I accidentally moved the mouse one pixel while clicking and the UI interprets that as draging and draging does nothing on a button.

Anyway, no thank you. Don't start ignoring clicks any more.

MfG
Mrvn

With all due respect mrvn, I beg to differ.

I think the gamer will hugely appreciate the click being ignored when he notices that the list has been updated instead. Thus saving him the more painful regret of having clicked on an undesired tech and then taking the unnecessary trouble of having to de-select that undesired tech from the research slot.

[Assault Gunner]

I agree with Josh. Partially. I have to note, however, that currently seleecting another tech switches to that one. I still think that the menu lock idea is a good one.