Improvements (multi) building

[mrvn]

Hi,

it seems to me building, esspecially building multiples of something could be improved.

- One of them is already known and accepted:

Droids should not block building construction, but move out of the way

Even more Droids should try not to stand where a building is planed in the first place. Or as soon as one is planed they should move out of the way so that by the time the truck reaches the place the site is clear for building.

- When building multiple things, e.g. a line of turrets, it would be nice if one could draw the line across obstacles and those places where turrets can't be build are skiped. The tuck just continues to the next tile till it can build again. This should happen at the time it wants to build, not while planing the line. That means if there is a tree in the middle of the line and one shoots the tree before the truck reaches that tile then it will build a turret there.

- Building a rectangle: I can build a line of VTOL pads. Why can't I build a 3x4 rectangle of them? I see no reason to limit multi building to lines. Some care shoud be taken in ordering the tiles in such a way that the truck does not paint itself into a corner.
Or maybe the truck could be made smarter to position itself out of the corner before building. (Was that improved in 2.3? Seems to happen less)

- Building multiple things with multiple units: I'm unsure here what would be better. Currently all units start on the first tile and collectively build the structure. Then all continue to the next time. That means each unit gets build more quickly. Alternatively each unit could build a different tile meaning more structures are build in parallel. I think the later would be more efficient as more trucks don't accrue power more quickly before the actual building starts.

Maybe this could be left as a choice to the user. Selecting 4 trucks and then building a row of turrets would have the 4 trucks build each turret together. Selecting a truck and building the same line of turrets 4 times (on top of each other) could make each truck build the next free tile instead of helping each other.

MfG
Mrvn

[JDW]

Even more Droids should try not to stand where a building is planed in the first place. Or as soon as one is planed they should move out of the way so that by the time the truck reaches the place the site is clear for building.

This is already working in the Trunk version (which is meant to be the under-development version). Anyone else here willing to back me up on this?

- When building multiple things, e.g. a line of turrets, it would be nice if one could draw the line across obstacles and those places where turrets can't be build are skiped. The tuck just continues to the next tile till it can build again. This should happen at the time it wants to build, not while planing the line. That means if there is a tree in the middle of the line and one shoots the tree before the truck reaches that tile then it will build a turret there.

I agree, that would be a more convenient way to order the truck for a build queue.

- Building a rectangle: I can build a line of VTOL pads. Why can't I build a 3x4 rectangle of them?

There was actually a request by one of the developers (Per) for a unique VTOL pad model, where he mentioned,

The first model is a 2x2 tile size VTOL Rearm Pad building. It needs to be able to accommodate 4 VTOLs rearming on top of it, so there is not going to be much space for "stuff" on its top side. Other than this it is a regular building. It should not be a flat pancake, like the current VTOL pads, it should have some height.

Follow that thread to see some really interesting models if you like.

Why can't I build a 3x4 rectangle of them? I see no reason to limit multi building to lines.

Are you suggesting this method for all structures?

- Building multiple things with multiple units: I'm unsure here what would be better. Currently all units start on the first tile and collectively build the structure. Then all continue to the next time. That means each unit gets build more quickly. Alternatively each unit could build a different tile meaning more structures are build in parallel. I think the later would be more efficient as more trucks don't accrue power more quickly before the actual building starts.

i think that the current way is better. With the current method, you would have a few completed defenses defending your Trucks as they go about finishing the rest of the build queue. What do you think?

Selecting a truck and building the same line of turrets 4 times (on top of each other) could make each truck build the next free tile instead of helping each other.

Wouldn't it be easier if instead, the first truck is ordered to build a queue of 4 turrets. Then with the second truck selected, click on the ghost structure that is not yet built so that it will start building the second turret, and so on for the third and fourth truck. What do you think?
EDIT: By my suggested method, there would be a lot more micro-management involved if you were to build more structures than the number of trucks you were going to use. Considering that, your method sound better in cases where the number of structures to be built outnumber the trucks/engineers available.

I think that this idea of allowing a free truck to start work on ghost structures (structures in the build queue of another truck on which work has not begun, shown as a transparent green building) was already suggested by someone on the forum.

[mrvn]

- Building a rectangle: I can build a line of VTOL pads. Why can't I build a 3x4 rectangle of them?

There was actually a request by one of the developers (Per) for a unique VTOL pad model, where he mentioned,

The first model is a 2x2 tile size VTOL Rearm Pad building. It needs to be able to accommodate 4 VTOLs rearming on top of it, so there is not going to be much space for "stuff" on its top side. Other than this it is a regular building. It should not be a flat pancake, like the current VTOL pads, it should have some height.

Follow that thread to see some really interesting models if you like.

Why can't I build a 3x4 rectangle of them? I see no reason to limit multi building to lines.

Are you suggesting this method for all structures?

I don't see why not. There is no reason to special case VTOL pads. People might want to build a line of turrets that is 2 deep.
Although the above is slightly superseeded by the build queues one can do with shift. You draw a line with shift pressed and then another line next to it.

- Building multiple things with multiple units: I'm unsure here what would be better. Currently all units start on the first tile and collectively build the structure. Then all continue to the next time. That means each unit gets build more quickly. Alternatively each unit could build a different tile meaning more structures are build in parallel. I think the later would be more efficient as more trucks don't accrue power more quickly before the actual building starts.

i think that the current way is better. With the current method, you would have a few completed defenses defending your Trucks as they go about finishing the rest of the build queue. What do you think?

That depends on how long it takes to accrue the power and how long to build and if you are under fire. As said I'm unsure.

Selecting a truck and building the same line of turrets 4 times (on top of each other) could make each truck build the next free tile instead of helping each other.

Wouldn't it be easier if instead, the first truck is ordered to build a queue of 4 turrets. Then with the second truck selected, click on the ghost structure that is not yet built so that it will start building the second turret, and so on for the third and fourth truck. What do you think?
EDIT: By my suggested method, there would be a lot more micro-management involved if you were to build more structures than the number of trucks you were going to use. Considering that, your method sound better in cases where the number of structures to be built outnumber the trucks/engineers available.

I think that this idea of allowing a free truck to start work on ghost structures (structures in the build queue of another truck on which work has not begun, shown as a transparent green building) was already suggested by someone on the forum.

I think clicking on a ghost structure with a truck should make it help build that structure, yes. A shortcut to selecting to build the same thing in the same place as the ghost structure. The engine already supports the later, doing it with a single click at the ghost would just make the UI nicer. The truck should probably copy the build queue too. So if you have a line or multiple buildings and you click a second truck at a ghost building it will help to build all of them, no just the one you clicked.

MfG
Mrvn

[JDW]

The truck should probably copy the build queue too. So if you have a line or multiple buildings and you click a second truck at a ghost building it will help to build all of them, no just the one you clicked.

I second that. The micro-management would be more efficient, fewer clicks, easy, no shortcut keys.

[JDW]

I don't see why not. There is no reason to special case VTOL pads. People might want to build a line of turrets that is 2 deep.
Although the above is slightly superseeded by the build queues one can do with shift. You draw a line with shift pressed and then another line next to it.

Why have an additional shift key to achieve that? A simple rectangular drop should be sufficient to do the job.

I would definitely use this trick to build rows of defense turrets in one go.

[Zarel]

Accruing power is instantaneous in trunk, which makes that particular consideration irrelevant.

[mrvn]

I don't see why not. There is no reason to special case VTOL pads. People might want to build a line of turrets that is 2 deep.
Although the above is slightly superseeded by the build queues one can do with shift. You draw a line with shift pressed and then another line next to it.

Why have an additional shift key to achieve that? A simple rectangular drop should be sufficient to do the job.

I would definitely use this trick to build rows of defense turrets in one go.

Me too. Just saying that the new shift feature makes this already a lot easier. When I started I didn't even know you could build lines. I clicked each turret in place manually. Talk about an eye opener when I discovered you could drag turrets.

MfG
Mrvn

[JDW]

Me too. Just saying that the new shift feature makes this already a lot easier.

The build queue generated by dragging a line across the terrain works only for defense structures, walls, VTOL pads, tank traps. And you don't need to hold the shift for this. There may be more, I haven't tried all. The shift key is used only when building multiple structures that are not adjacent to each other, but an exception is cases involving larger structures like factories, Power generators, Fortresses etc. that even though can be adjacent to each other, they still require the shift to be held down while you click each adjacent location for the build queue.

When I started I didn't even know you could build lines. I clicked each turret in place manually. Talk about an eye opener when I discovered you could drag turrets.

I have come across many members on the forum who have had the same experience. And the same applies to me too, had that experience only a few hours ago.

I haven't the slightest clue as to how educating new gamers could be improved. Not everyone bothers to go hunting for solutions. Some just give up if the game feels handicapped. Improving the tutorial is only one option. Is there any other?

[mrvn]

My point was that you can combine shift with draging a line. You can queue up multiple lines.
So to build a rectangle of 2x10 turrets you queue up 2 lines of 10 turrets. Just take care to build the front line first so the truck stays behind the turrets and not in front. Saver that way.

Or, for advanced users, you queue up a line of machine gun turrets followed by a line of minni rockets (which have a greater range).

MfG
Mrvn

[Powzone]

About the thing with all trucks building one turret in a line or eaxh truch building one different turret:

Pressing shift is totally clear right now.
Pressing ctrl could do the trick when drawing a line!

I mean to let the selected trucks build one building by each truck, when drawing a line with ctrl instead of shift. Could work fine. Something I thought about a long time ago, but forgot to this point...