Models by Jorzi (AR)

[Rman Virgil]

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..... btw will be interesting seeing the new commander design, the current one looks... weird :\

Second that. Always struck me as a cockroach impregnated by a scarab beetle.

- RV

[Jorzi]

Made it a bit more hipoly, now the disc has 9 edges instead of 8
110 tris total

[Corporal Punishment]

Okay, here's my sketches. I made two concepts: the second is somewhat canonic, the first is almost hertic. But I think it looks way better. My idea for the first one, based on the original model, isn't quite satisfying. As you can see, I made them a bit lower than the original and interpreted the textures on the right upper corner as a tracing radar. The commander tower, where the actual officer or, if you like that better, the AI core resides should give it a more functional look. As do the ventilation grills, this thing is crammed with computer hardware, if should require quuite some cooling.

[CinC]

cool designs, but your slim antenna looks more like a vertical tail then an antenna.. doesn't it?

[MetalWarrior95]

It looks ok but it looks ugly, i think that it should have an complete redesing or just do nothing about cmd turret...

[Roux Le Corps]

i like the first one actually, but i do agree with mw95, i think the commander turret needs more radical changes or a complete redesign.

[Corporal Punishment]

I agree that the antennas are anything but perfect and I originally envisioned thin, flexible metal tubes as such antennas are on real military vehicles. But those would most probably be unrecognizable in the game. That would be a problem, since the antennas are a most important feature to recognize the commander among other units so I had to find a trade-off between good looking, easily recognizable and let's not forget poly-count.
One of the premises of Art Revolution is to stay as close as possible to the original models, what limits me to an extend in my artistic vision, if you want to call these scribblings art. The commander turret is the most pain in the ass, since it just has no real life counterpart. Armored battalion commanders ride a regular battle tank into combat that deviates from the other vehicles only by having one or two radio antennas more. But RTS game models need some outstanding features to make them easily recognizable even when fully zoomed out. The real life technology that comes closest to the WZ commander is the artillery spotter tank, M113 Gavins are widely used for that among the western nations. But those are turretless and have only a flat surveillance dome which was the inspiration for the commander tower on my concepts. So these don't really fit in with the vehicle design system. If you two want a complete redesign, may I kindly ask what it should be like in terms of outstanding features, overall shape and functionality?

[Rman Virgil]

I agree that the antennas are anything but perfect and I originally envisioned thin, flexible metal tubes as such antennas are on real military vehicles. But those would most probably be unrecognizable in the game. That would be a problem, since the antennas are a most important feature to recognize the commander among other units so I had to find a trade-off between good looking, easily recognizable and let's not forget poly-count.

One of the premises of Art Revolution is to stay as close as possible to the original models, what limits me to an extend in my artistic vision, if you want to call these scribblings art. The commander turret is the most pain in the ass, since it just has no real life counterpart. Armored battalion commanders ride a regular battle tank into combat that deviates from the other vehicles only by having one or two radio antennas more.

But RTS game models need some outstanding features to make them easily recognizable even when fully zoomed out. The real life technology that comes closest to the WZ commander is the artillery spotter tank, M113 Gavins are widely used for that among the western nations. But those are turretless and have only a flat surveillance dome which was the inspiration for the commander tower on my concepts. So these don't really fit in with the vehicle design system. If you two want a complete redesign, may I kindly ask what it should be like in terms of outstanding features, overall shape and functionality?

The antennas are an important design component to retain, I agree.

It is the "squat" command turret itself that is most inelegant, IMHO.

Perhaps streamline it and to the antennas add surveillance & fire control, booms and masts ? I believe they would fit the criteria set of "easily recognizable", more elegant & portray the tech logic of a command and control land vehicle.

I'm thinking of some of the military vehicles designed and manufactured by the Turkish company called Aselsan.

Check-out some of the pics on this Pakistan Defense site that illustrate what I mean by "surveillance & fire control, booms and masts ?":

http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-force ... ams-9.html

Btw - very fine drawings.

- Regards, RV

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[CinC]

The commander turret is the most pain in the ass, since it just has no real life counterpart. Armored battalion commanders ride a regular battle tank into combat that deviates from the other vehicles only by having one or two radio antennas more. But RTS game models need some outstanding features to make them easily recognizable even when fully zoomed out. The real life technology that comes closest to the WZ commander is the artillery spotter tank, M113 Gavins are widely used for that among the western nations.

I would say this is not correct there are several vehicles which could be called commander. The Germans have a vehicle called Fennek:


several asian armys have the GCL 45.


But in the most modern armys the commander thing will be done by UAVs. And maybe it could be implemented in WZ 2100 too. (It could be a special drone smaller than a bug and flys higher and only for recon and target designation...)

[Roux Le Corps]

sorry cp didnt mean to come off as an prick there, but sure, i was thinking like the second tank above, its overall body shape, oibviously shrunken down, just so it looks like a complex turret rather then an odd looking head.

[Jorzi]

hmm... interesting ideas, it's indeed quite hard to find any real life examples of a "command turret". I guess we need to resort to imaginative gadgets and scientific technobabble. It's propably easiest to just try to re-create the original with better detail...

[Corporal Punishment]

Erm, CinC, you realize that both the Fennek and the HCR45 are RECONNAISSANCE vehicles, not command vehicles, right? They are not designed to lead other forces but to gather information on terrain and enemy movement. In this respect, they resemble the WZ sensor vehicles more than commanders. Plus, as you probably have noticed, the two are turretless and therefore don't help us as they won't fit any better into the vehicle design system as an M113 Gavin. I do agree with you, however, that UAVs are the option of choice with modern day armies to laser-designate targets, but only for air stikes, preferably cruise missile air strikes, as they have no means of collating and dispensing tactical data like a commander vehicle AND can't designate an infinite number of targets in a line, they have to make several approaches to do so simply because of their speed. They'll never replace the battalion commander on the ground.

I think remaking the original model with better textures will not be satisfying. It will still look strange. At least is should be flattened and even better would be using a refitted weapon turret, either cannon or, like in my first sketch, heavy MG turret as the basis. And it should be teamcolored, with the commander-typical details still black.

[Jorzi]

I do kinda like the second turret design (commander1.jpg), It just doesn't really look hi-tech enough for the style. I know that no-one would put sensitive electronics and wiring on the outside of the armor, like they have on many scifi-looking designs, but maybe a few more cameras and sensors/measuring instruments, and some stuff like reactive armor etc

[Corporal Punishment]

Yeah, it's closer to the original. It was the first I made, the refit HMG turret was a test balloon to make it more elegant. I was thinking of more instruments on the front, the original texture has additional blue and red spots scattered around the laser designator. But I decided not to draw them for two reasons. The first is that people won't be able to see them most of the time. The second and far more important is that the details I did draw represent all aspects of the commander turret's functionality: The antennas are symbolic for receiving and dispensing information, the tracking radar represents the capability to coordinate artillery fire support, the laser designator clearly corresponds with it's leadership role and the commander tower emphasizes the gathering and collating of tactical data. As a third reason I could field that I couldn't think of any other external device that could be of use to a battalion commander, save on-board armament. Especially when talking cameras, I think that eight periscopes around the commander tower should really be enough. Reactive armor is an interesting point from the artistic perspective, I know Mangust uses it regularly on his cannon turrets. As a military professional, however, I hold it to be among the worst inventions ever. Not because it is ineffective, in fact it is very effective in stopping projectiles and deviating energy. But it does so by fracturing and thus creates a volley of shrapnel that cuts every infantryman around to shreds. That means any vehicle fit with reactive armor must be kept neatly separated from infantry, limiting it's tactical versatility. But something has to be done about the large, empty faces, I agree on that. Unlike a real military vehicle, which in some cases exhibit a rather dull look, a game model must first and foremost look appealing. Just now I realize, in this respect, that the square turret, commander1.jpg, is out of balance, because of the radar and commander tower sharing a vertical axis it seems to be leaning to the right, especially in the front view. The hexagonal turret, commander2.jpg, does better there. But I should have drawn the lateral air-intakes larger. But back to the high-tech gadgets... A thermal imaging sight could fit well to the front of the model to complete a trinity of devices on the front panel. Would look pretty much like a regular camera lens, though. But should have an armored lid that closes in the daytime to protect the valuable optic. That of course means that in WZ, you would see the lid only.

[Jorzi]

You could propably do the instruments like if the tank was on an exhibition, lids open to show off the techonlogy and so on.
And about the reactive armor, the only infantry in warzone is cyborgs and they have advanced composite armor which leaves them unaffected by shrapnel and debris. Therefore reactive armor would never pose a threat to friendly units.