Entrechments for temporary defense

[Zarel]

Erm, okay. Dev team here. I "kind of" have final say on what goes on with the game, balance-wise, so here is my official opinion: It sounds like a good idea, and I'm not going to reject it immediately, but I'm not sure if we will end up accepting it, either.

One objection is that entrenchments are too similar to bunkers. We might look into simply modifying bunkers to be structures that cyborgs can enter and leave.

[macuser]

Good Idea zarel, But maybe we would also have to add some bigger bunkers then

[Corporal Punishment]

One objection is that entrenchments are too similar to bunkers. We might look into simply modifying bunkers to be structures that cyborgs can enter and leave.

Well, they're completely different to bunkers in their resistance towards different weapon classes. Whereas a bunker is not really impressed by anti-cyborg weaponry, an emplacement manned by cyborgs wold take extensive damage from these. The cyborgs would, that is. But when these are destroyed, the entrenchment is practically useless. In case an entrenchment would be manned by a tank, you'd have a defense that's exposed to anti-tank weaponry. So, the option to entrench both tanks and cyborgs adds the new element that siege artillery is not any more the premiere way to breech fortified positions since other weapons can have better effect AND the defenders have the option to start a counter attack (emerging from their positions), meaning that if you were to use siege artillery against them that requires protecting it with combat units while in the case of immobile bunkers this can be neglected.
And I again stress the point that entrenchments provide less defensive strength than bunkers when encountered by a field army (as opposed to siege weapons) but be cheaper and faster to set up as the actual weapon system is "preproduced" and relocatable. And I believe there is a unit cap, isn't there? So, every unit you assign to an entrenchment means one unit less for your field army. All in all, this makes entrenchments feasible only for temporary usage while a bunker still remains first choice in the long run. You can not really say the two are very similar in their tactical role.

[XHero_of_ChaosX]

I think something similar to command and conquer would be nice. the ability for cyborgs to garrison inside broken down buildings and houses. Since buildings are really weak to begin with, i also suggest adding a coding of some sort that make them stronger and useful for cyborgs to use.. as for the entrenchments, how about adding neutral entrenchments or bunkers to the key points of the map? Players can then take them over and commence defense on bottleneck and key points that the developers have selected.. This could also open up opportunities for more game types such as territorial, capture the flag, or objective games.

[DTSX]

^ I completely agree with this idea, if you could recode buildings to be extreme sturdy and garrison-able, it would give cyborgs the ability to be more useful. Also give the cyborgs benefits in range, power, and line-of-sight. What would also be awesome would be very quick, garrison-able sandbags that engineers can make. Compared to any other bunkers, these are extremely sturdy, but also extremely quick to build with little energy cost.

[XHero_of_ChaosX]

and to balance things out, make the flamers extremely effective against the garrisons.. from several posts ive read, you guys really shoot for the balance of the game, so there you go.

[Corporal Punishment]

Putting up ready made entrenchments would press the individual game too much into a predefined raster, I believe. Let players build them where they want seems far better. Although the idea about the entrenchment itself being neutral is neat, but possibly hard to implement. The only way might be to allow players to conquer them similar to NASDA central in campaign.
Having cyborgs garrison derelict buildings will hardly be possible with this game. They're basically map features and not prepared to play any active role other then blocking line of sight.

[XHero_of_ChaosX]

Hmmm, i see. Just a suggestion for the future then. Keep it bookmarked.

[DTSX]

what you could possible do is use the mortar pit sandbags for the model, but then have it so that you can assign x number of units to it (similar to the effect of a commander), they can all get a different benefit. The problem is that commanders wouldn't be able to use those units- just a temporary idea.

Also, I didn't mean pre-fabricated buildings, I just meant insta-built, with very little cost in energy and fast build times, also very fragile perhaps.

[Tenoh]

if they are fragile then whats the point?

[Roux Le Corps]

what would you prefer? sand getting shot or you? better survivability

[DTSX]

Because lets say the heavy cannon hits the sandbags, you're given, what, +30% armor and thus it barely scratches you, but think realistically, if a heavy cannon hits a sandbag, I'm pretty sure the sandbags would go boom. It's like a 200mm cannon vs some sand and hemp.

[MetalWarrior95]

Well, i dint real everything but i think that this idea was the most stupid one,there should have sandbags but they should be cheap and weak health points,but they would be useless because they are weakest defense ever and it would destroy the balance!

[Roux Le Corps]

nah i dont think it would kill balance if executed right, and just because its cheap and weak doesn't mean its useless, take mg viper wheels, sure by higher tier games you wouldn't even have it as an option to build, but for the start its a good rush weapon, it still has use ^_^

[Corporal Punishment]

Whether the actual artwork of an entrenchment would comprise sandbags or concrete isn't the point. It's all about what an entrenchment does. While it is true that these things have to be real cheap and quick to build, this does not necessarily mean it would be weak. Provided it absorbs 50% of weapon damage, the defensive strength of an entrenchment rises proportional to the armor of the unit manning it. Furthermore, you have to calculate the cost of the entrenchment plus the unit to man it. Now the whole thing can be quite expensive. Imagine putting a Tiger Scourge Tracks into it.