Is Your Computer Fastest Enough To Run This Game?

[dragonflythecat]

It is a funny thing about Computer Programmers - they may know a lot about software but know absolutely nothing about hardware - as you can see from this comment:

"That could be the case, or it could be something else. Too hard to tell, but most of the time, crashes to desktop are the result of driver bugs, hardware failure (overheating, CPU errors, RAM errors), or we blew up the stack. Bottom line is, if we can't replicate it, then not much we can do about it."

Stupidity can be vague.

Had they known more about computer hardware they wouldn't have made this comment. For instance: When was the last time you read the ReadMe file that ships with each Beta Release? The readme file used to list system requirements for this game - it no longer does - Why?

Because due to the numerous Beta Releases for this game, the Game Programmers themselves don't know what the system requirements are, from one Beta Release to the next. It is one of the reasons they ask you to test.

ALL CRASHES TO ANY COMPUTER SYSTEM ARE ALWAYS SOFTWARE RELATED - NOT HARDWARE. Hardware can't do a thing without software - therefore; that is always your culprit.

Do you know why there are so many software related crashes associated with this game?

It is because the Game Developers working on this game are not "Professional" Game Developers - If they were Professional Game Developers they wouldn't have time to work on this game - they would be employed - I'm surprised you didn't figure that out for yourself...

The current Game Developers are using this game as a means of teaching themselves how to be successful game developers. Beta Tester are suppose to help them reach that goal - even if it means we have kick, punch, and pull them in the right direction - whether they like it or not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All right Saberuneko, it's your turn. So you just got a new computer, well for the most part it is just as Zarel said - You got screwed but not in the way he is referring to - but not to worry, I got screwed too when I bought my new dual processor computer. Like you, I thought that my new computer was going to ultra fast and it wasn't. It took me a while to figure out that only the Windows "Ultimate" version of the software, whether it is Vista or 7, is the only operating system that has support for Dual Processors built into the operating system - there is no other way to get that support, there are no drivers available from Microsoft to fix this problem. So we know from your post that your new computer system is only running on half of its cylinders.

Currently for this game work properly - I am making this assumption based on how the game worked on my XP system in comparison of how it works on my Vista system - The game has worked correctly on my XP system from 2.2.4 Final to 2.3 Beta 5 -Then I started posting problems involving the Trucks - I'm sure you will remember that - and then my posts stopped. They stopped because I deleted the game from the XP system and moved it to the Vista system and so far I have had none of the problems the rest of your are reporting for the last three Beta Releases.

The new standard is this: your computer should be more powerful than mine.

The Beta releases 2.3 Beta 6 and onward won't run on this system without errors and crashes.

Microsoft Windows XP Professional 5.1 2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
Dell OptiPlex GX260 Tower
Intel 1800Mhz
Ram: 768mb
Intel 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphic Controller
Video Ram: 64mb

The Beta releases 2.3 Beta 6 and onward run on this system without errors and crashes.

Microsoft Vista Home Premium Service Pack 2 Build 6002
Compaq Presario CQ Notebook
AMD Athlon Dual Core QL 62 2000Mhz
Ram: 2gb
Nvidia GeForce 8200M G
Video Ram: 256mb

So your new computer heats up like a Toaster Oven, does it? So does mine - I had to learn the hard way that you can get a little contraption that sits beneath the computer that has dual fans to reduce that heat footprint that will plug into your USB port. That will solve some of your problems. I'm surprised Zarel couldn't tell you that.

If your computer heats up too much the game will stop responding on Laptops and Notebooks - realistically this game is best run on a Desktop Tower because there are more space inside a tower to reduce the heat. The other problem is that you are asking you computer to do something it was not created to do - Host a multi-player game - if it hasn't dawned on you yet: You have not got a gaming computer - unless you upgrade your computer's OS you probably will never be able to until you provide support for the dual processors.

I also suspect there are other problems with your new computer that you are as yet unaware of.

Do you think you know how a computer actually works? I wouldn't be so quick to say YES. Because if you did know, then you wouldn't have bought that computer. What happens inside your computer after you click on the mouse or type in to the keyboard?

The click of a mouse is an instruction just as every keystroke upon the keyboard - where do those instructions go? Those instructions go to the BUS. How big is your BUS on the new computer? The BUS has another name - do you know it? It is also referred to as the Bottleneck, can you figure out why?

Because all the instructions from the mouse or keyboard have to travel through the BUS to arrive at the CHIP. Then the CHIP has to send the new instructions back through the BUS before the action can appear upon the MONITOR - the larger the bus the faster your computer will work. The smaller the BUS the more HEAT your computer will create. It is pretty simple really.

But your problem has open the door to a bigger problem - What kind of computer systems are the Game Developers using to create this game?

What operating system are they using?
What size processors are in their computers?
What size are the BUS?
How much RAM is in their computers?
What Video cards are they using?
How much video ram is attached to their video cards?

All of these things make a difference as how well this game can be played on your system or not. I suspect that five Beta releases from now this game won't work on my Vista system either. There is no backwards compatibility built into this game.

Do not take this comment to heart Saberuneko: "Also: Your new computer has a pretty terrible processor. If you really got it a month ago, you got ripped off. That processor was considered low-end like several years ago; it's like five generations behind. I bet they probably used cheap parts for the rest of the computer, too."

Clearly it is comments like this that shows that Zarel doesn't know his rear-end from a hole in the ground.

Saberuneko: Processor Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU E5400 @ 2.70GHz - your chip
Dragonflythecat: AMD Athlon Dual Core QL 62 2000Mhz - my chip

If your chip is five generation past then mine must be at least eight or nine - oh my!

Here is the bottom line, Dear. I have a BS in Telecommunications Management - which is the management of large computer networks - Currently I manage 16 Cray Super Computers at undisclosed Military location in the Pacific Northwest of the United States - I am also A+ certified for the last 10 years and I am 55 years old.

Did you know that Zarel is only 20 years old? So how can this comment make sense?

"That processor was considered low-end like several years ago; it's like five generations behind."

When Zarel doesn't know the answer, he lies. Logic dictates a different response.


Dragonfly The Cat

[cybersphinx]

ALL CRASHES TO ANY COMPUTER SYSTEM ARE ALWAYS SOFTWARE RELATED - NOT HARDWARE. Hardware can't do a thing without software - therefore; that is always your culprit.

Please remove your CPU cooler and tell me which part of your software was responsible for what happened.

All right Saberuneko, it's your turn. So you just got a new computer, well for the most part it is just as Zarel said - You got screwed but not in the way he is referring to - but not to worry, I got screwed too when I bought my new dual processor computer. Like you, I thought that my new computer was going to ultra fast and it wasn't. It took me a while to figure out that only the Windows "Ultimate" version of the software, whether it is Vista or 7, is the only operating system that has support for Dual Processors built into the operating system - there is no other way to get that support, there are no drivers available from Microsoft to fix this problem. So we know from your post that your new computer system is only running on half of its cylinders.

So, only the Ultimate Windows supports dual processors. Big deal, as there's a difference between dual sockets (processors) and dual cores.

If your computer heats up too much the game will stop responding on Laptops and Notebooks - realistically this game is best run on a Desktop Tower because there are more space inside a tower to reduce the heat. The other problem is that you are asking you computer to do something it was not created to do - Host a multi-player game - if it hasn't dawned on you yet: You have not got a gaming computer - unless you upgrade your computer's OS you probably will never be able to until you provide support for the dual processors.

I also suspect there are other problems with your new computer that you are as yet unaware of.

Do you think you know how a computer actually works? I wouldn't be so quick to say YES. Because if you did know, then you wouldn't have bought that computer. What happens inside your computer after you click on the mouse or type in to the keyboard?

The click of a mouse is an instruction just as every keystroke upon the keyboard - where do those instructions go? Those instructions go to the BUS. How big is your BUS on the new computer? The BUS has another name - do you know it? It is also referred to as the Bottleneck, can you figure out why?

Because all the instructions from the mouse or keyboard have to travel through the BUS to arrive at the CHIP. Then the CHIP has to send the new instructions back through the BUS before the action can appear upon the MONITOR - the larger the bus the faster your computer will work. The smaller the BUS the more HEAT your computer will create. It is pretty simple really.

Seriously?

What operating system are they using?

Linux.

What size processors are in their computers?

About a square inch, it's an Athlon X2 5000+.

What size are the BUS?

Not sure, ~80 people I think.

How much RAM is in their computers?

11 GB in the two that are used.

What Video cards are they using?

A Radeon X800 GTO and a 9600XT.

How much video ram is attached to their video cards?

256 MB and 64 MB.

I am 55 years old.

Did you know that Zarel is only 20 years old?

Way to make an argument.

[macuser]

Actually in the new intel core i5, i7 processors, the concept of a bus bottleneck is done away with. Back in the days of 286s', processor speed and bus speed was the same - no bottle neck. But as processors got faster they developed a bus speed multiplier which the processor speed was a multiple of. The situation got so out of hand that in 2002 they came out with HT technology which basically allow the processor to do more before it has to send the info through the bus once more. However with the i5 and i7 the bus is now running as if it were the same speed as the cpu - in a way.

-regards macuser

[Zarel]

It is a funny thing about Computer Programmers - they may know a lot about software but know absolutely nothing about hardware - as you can see from this comment:

"That could be the case, or it could be something else. Too hard to tell, but most of the time, crashes to desktop are the result of driver bugs, hardware failure (overheating, CPU errors, RAM errors), or we blew up the stack. Bottom line is, if we can't replicate it, then not much we can do about it."

Stupidity can be vague.

Funny thing about not having a crash report - it's kind of difficult to know what happened.

Had they known more about computer hardware they wouldn't have made this comment. For instance: When was the last time you read the ReadMe file that ships with each Beta Release? The readme file used to list system requirements for this game - it no longer does - Why?

We do not have the resources to test for system requirements. From what I know, the current system requirements are fairly low.

Because due to the numerous Beta Releases for this game, the Game Programmers themselves don't know what the system requirements are, from one Beta Release to the next. It is one of the reasons they ask you to test.

Well, none of the things we've done since 2.3 beta 2 or so have any effect on system requirements.

ALL CRASHES TO ANY COMPUTER SYSTEM ARE ALWAYS SOFTWARE RELATED - NOT HARDWARE. Hardware can't do a thing without software - therefore; that is always your culprit.

And software can't do a thing without hardware... funny how that works. Hardware failure can easily lead to crashes, as Cybersphinx's heatsink example shows. Or for a more safe example, try unplugging your computer (and removing its batteries if it's a laptop). I guarantee the subsequent hardware failure will cause your computer to stop working.

Do you know why there are so many software related crashes associated with this game?

I'd venture it's the same reason there are crashes in any other software. Mostly unpredictable corner cases we didn't test.

It is because the Game Developers working on this game are not "Professional" Game Developers - If they were Professional Game Developers they wouldn't have time to work on this game - they would be employed - I'm surprised you didn't figure that out for yourself...

Funny thing, how employed people can have free time.

The current Game Developers are using this game as a means of teaching themselves how to be successful game developers. Beta Tester are suppose to help them reach that goal - even if it means we have kick, punch, and pull them in the right direction - whether they like it or not.

Being a successful game developer really isn't in my list of life goals, so how's about we both concentrate on the goal of releasing a stable Warzone 2100, hmm?

All right Saberuneko, it's your turn. So you just got a new computer, well for the most part it is just as Zarel said - You got screwed but not in the way he is referring to - but not to worry, I got screwed too when I bought my new dual processor computer. Like you, I thought that my new computer was going to ultra fast and it wasn't. It took me a while to figure out that only the Windows "Ultimate" version of the software, whether it is Vista or 7, is the only operating system that has support for Dual Processors built into the operating system - there is no other way to get that support, there are no drivers available from Microsoft to fix this problem. So we know from your post that your new computer system is only running on half of its cylinders.

Erm, what does that have to do with us?

Anyway, his computer is dual-core, not dual-processor. Any remotely recent version of Windows should be able to handle it without issue.

Currently for this game work properly - I am making this assumption based on how the game worked on my XP system in comparison of how it works on my Vista system - The game has worked correctly on my XP system from 2.2.4 Final to 2.3 Beta 5 -Then I started posting problems involving the Trucks - I'm sure you will remember that - and then my posts stopped. They stopped because I deleted the game from the XP system and moved it to the Vista system and so far I have had none of the problems the rest of your are reporting for the last three Beta Releases.

The new standard is this: your computer should be more powerful than mine.

Not necessarily. It's more a question of: "Does your computer have a video card that handles OpenGL well?" OpenGL-compatibility is the biggest concern; raw power has very little to do with it - nearly every computer made in the last few years has enough raw power to handle Warzone.

Although it may very well be raw power. You could test that by running a different game. RuneScape is probably good for a simple test. Can your computer handle RuneScape in High Detail mode?

The Beta releases 2.3 Beta 6 and onward won't run on this system without errors and crashes.

Have you reported those crashes? Crash reports are the first step to fixing them.

So your new computer heats up like a Toaster Oven, does it? So does mine - I had to learn the hard way that you can get a little contraption that sits beneath the computer that has dual fans to reduce that heat footprint that will plug into your USB port. That will solve some of your problems. I'm surprised Zarel couldn't tell you that.

Well, I suppose "your computer is overheating" is all I can say. The simplest solution is "get a computer with better heat management". Getting an external fan is an option, but at that point there are probably other things wrong with it, too, and getting a new computer will generally fix all those issues.

If your computer heats up too much the game will stop responding on Laptops and Notebooks - realistically this game is best run on a Desktop Tower because there are more space inside a tower to reduce the heat. The other problem is that you are asking you computer to do something it was not created to do - Host a multi-player game - if it hasn't dawned on you yet: You have not got a gaming computer - unless you upgrade your computer's OS you probably will never be able to until you provide support for the dual processors.

Hosting a multiplayer game is about the same as playing singleplayer, as far as system requirements go. It'll require an internet connection (unlike singleplayer), but it's really not that different.

Warzone does not require a gaming computer. It runs fine even on some netbooks.

Do you think you know how a computer actually works? I wouldn't be so quick to say YES. Because if you did know, then you wouldn't have bought that computer. What happens inside your computer after you click on the mouse or type in to the keyboard?

Fortunately, familiarity with computer architecture is not a prerequisite to owning a computer (which is a good thing, since judging by your explanation, if it was, you would not own one).

But your problem has open the door to a bigger problem - What kind of computer systems are the Game Developers using to create this game?

[...]

All of these things make a difference as how well this game can be played on your system or not. I suspect that five Beta releases from now this game won't work on my Vista system either. There is no backwards compatibility built into this game.

Our 3.0 branch runs fine on older PowerPC Macs, incidentally. As mentioned earlier, it's not about power, it's about OpenGL-compatibility.

Saberuneko: Processor Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU E5400 @ 2.70GHz - your chip
Dragonflythecat: AMD Athlon Dual Core QL 62 2000Mhz - my chip

If your chip is five generation past then mine must be at least eight or nine - oh my!

Funny thing, there's more to processor power than raw clock speed. 2000MHz processors existed as early as the year 2000 (Pentium 4). 2000MHz dual-core processors have existed since 2006.

My exact words were "like five generations" - they were an exaggeration, but the fact remains that the Pentium Dual-Core family remains below Intel's Core, Core 2, Core i3, Core i5, and Core i7 product families (in fact, the Pentium Dual-Core brand no longer exists).

Here is the bottom line

The bottom line is an ad hominem fallacy? Good to know. Would you like to know my race? Then you can be racist, too!

[Kamaze]

To badmouth about someone including

Stupidity can be vague

is a good base for a objective and constructive discussion.

I recommend you our FAQ point: I thing you're doing it wrong!
And you should may take it to your heart.

If not, you have the source and can go your own way. But if you continue publishing your critism/rants on such a level, we're not willed to follow you nor to provide you the plattform for this.

[Safety0ff]

ALL CRASHES TO ANY COMPUTER SYSTEM ARE ALWAYS SOFTWARE RELATED - NOT HARDWARE. Hardware can't do a thing without software - therefore; that is always your culprit.

I recently fixed an issue with a computer which after adding two more PC2-8500 ram modules, games would consistently crash after a few minutes of playing. What happened? The motherboard properly detected the speed for all four modules ( before they were running slower) but it was off by one from stable timings (tRFC needed to be increased from 44 to 45 to stabilise the system.) Hardware issues can cause crashes.

The new standard is this: your computer should be more powerful than mine.

How do you *know* performance was the issue? Your new system has different hardware, different drivers, etc.

The Beta releases 2.3 Beta 6 and onward won't run on this system without errors and crashes.

You don't say what these errors are, yet you're using this to argue that performance is the problem.

I'm surprised Zarel couldn't tell you that.

He did, see the "overheating" in the quote you posted ( it was in in the hardware issues section in case you didn't notice.)

Your whole talk about the bus and how the computer works is not really relevant, and misses many details.

But your problem has open the door to a bigger problem - What kind of computer systems are the Game Developers using to create this game?

What operating systems are they using?
What size processors are in their computers?
What size is the BUS?
How much RAM is in their computers?
What Video cards are they using?
How much video ram is attached to their video cards?

Personally:
I have Windows 7 pro 32bit and Ubuntu 9.04 32 bit.
Processor: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=29 ... ssor=T7300 ( Not sure about size...)
64bit memory interface.
2 GB @667MHz ( if I recall correctly, I'll update once I double check)
GeForce 8400M GS, 128MB

A few notes on performance, my laptop did heat up considerably when I was playing 2.2.4 and there has been performance improvements, but they are still being tested in trunk.

Here is the bottom line...

You do a nice job of embarrassing yourself starting here.

There are many things you said that I could touch on, but I decided not to bite...

[Olrox]

I dunno, I feel like I've wasted 7 seconds of my life scrolling down this topic. Some people never learn.

~Olrox

[Buginator]

I dunno, I feel like I've wasted 7 seconds of my life scrolling down this topic. Some people never learn.

~Olrox

I smell a new poll coming on!

[Olrox]

I dunno, I feel like I've wasted 7 seconds of my life scrolling down this topic. Some people never learn.

~Olrox

I smell a new poll coming on!

I thought about doing just that, but apparently the devs are so mean that they don't want us to be able to create polls anymore. You are all trying to deceive us to steal our souls. I think you guys eat children as well, not to mention that you most probably push old maids into passing cars instead of helping them to walk across the street. Pure chaotic evil beings, that's it.

Yeah...


~Olrox

[Safety0ff]

While all editions of Windows Vista can support multiple core CPUs, only Windows Vista Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise can support dual processors.

If you were as knowledgeable as you say you are, you'd know the difference between multi-core CPUs and dual processor computers. Nice try.

[drgnrdr]

When I was going to school in the 70's, there were 3 reasons for a program to crash.
1 - Hardware
2 - Software
3 - User
Now hardware related problems are almost always drivers. Which can be classified as software. Software problems do come up, but they're usually fixed in the next release. If you don't like software problems don't use betas. User problems are when you hit the wrong key at the wrong time.
Now as to this game not working well on certain systems, I have 2 computers. One a Acer Aspire One AOA-150-1777 netbook. It's OS is Windows XP Home SP3. The game works fine on it. It starts up faster than my desktop, but plays a little slower than my desktop. My desktop is one I built from scratch. It's got a brad new Gigabyte motherboard with I7 Processor, a XFX Radeon HD 4890 1GB graphics card and 8 gig DDR3 Ram. My OS is Windows Vista Utimate 32. The game works fine on it, though it takes longer to start. But plays a little bit faster.
On both systems any problems I've had in playing Warzone 2100 has usually been driver related, Not hardware.

Regards drgnrdr

[Berg]

If your going to be critical offer solutions go code it better...


Disregards ...From Berg


PS:

Here is the bottom line, Dear. I have a BS in Telecommunications Management - which is the management of large computer networks - Currently I manage 16 Cray Super Computers at undisclosed Military location in the Pacific Northwest of the United States - I am also A+ certified for the last 10 years and I am 55 years old."

I am 56 years old and my age is worth nothing if I get so arrogant as to think there is no other opinion except mine.
As for Zarel being 20 or so has no bearing on this topic.
There are many dev's here and to single one out shows that he/she threatens your ego.

[lav_coyote25]

oh my god! really! again! what is it about this game that brings out the differences in AGE thing all the fracking time. seriously , its a fracking game. we all love this wonderfull rotten coded piece of software that we are willing to go to war over it. step back from the brink , take a deep breath and step off!! now! i am 56 , will be 57 in august. not that that makes a difference. so what. get over ourselves and work to the common good already. if you cant do it - bye bye its been a slice, dont let the door hit your ass on the way out. kthnksbai. figure out in what order the smilies should be.

[Olrox]

Here is the bottom line, Dear. I have a BS in Telecommunications Management - which is the management of large computer networks - Currently I manage 16 Cray Super Computers at undisclosed Military location in the Pacific Northwest of the United States - I am also A+ certified for the last 10 years and I am 55 years old.

Did you know that Zarel is only 20 years old? So how can this comment make sense?

"That processor was considered low-end like several years ago; it's like five generations behind."

When Zarel doesn't know the answer, he lies. Logic dictates a different response.

LOL I've missed that. I'm 18 an I'm goddamn proud of still being young and making incredible things - And I know that I still have my whole life to improve everything and learn new things.

But, hey, you've got
"16 Cray Super Computers at undisclosed Military location in the Pacific Northwest of the United States - I am also A+ certified for the last 10 years and I am 55." on your back. Let me ask you a question based on such extraordinary (probably fake) accomplishments:

What are you doing in a videogame forum if you're so important? I mean, 16 supercomputers, that's like "over 9000" responsability! Good grief. What were you doing these 55 years, that kept you so busy that you couldn't grow up? I'm trying to feel sad for you, but I can't manage to. You need help, but you don't think so, and you wouldn't want any even if you thought you needed. And I don't trust you, also.

Now you can laugh at us, because yeah, you've managed to make us waste more of our precious time with useless crap like all of your posts. At least I can practice a little typing in the proccess or have a few shallow laughs at the irony of it all.

I promise I'll ignore you from now on. You've earned it, congratulations (perhaps you should add that to your mighty probably fake curriculum. That's mental masturbation if you will)

About Zarel's age - you can be sure that this never kept him of being one of the most promising people I know - he already accomplished a lot, in an age that you were (or are about, if my presumptions are right) probably just feeling like the smart * because you can annoy a whole lot of people from all around the world.

I suggest that you do what Lav said. If you don't have anything to do to contribute, be it real critics (not shallow, infantile ones like you've made so far) or content, I think no one will miss you, really...

~Olrox

[KenAlcock]

It is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. (I forgot who coined this phrase, but it came to mind reading this thread.)