Photos for texture work & Sky Boxes ?

[Rman Virgil]

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Wasn't quite sure where to post this but move it if it's better placed elsewhere..

I'll be leaving Colorado on the 28th of this month for California and a 10 day stay at Lake Tohoe in the Sierras Mountains - one of the natural jewels of the USA.

I will be shooting dig pics as is my habit when traveling for my own projects.

This region has everything in the way of landscape textures that could be useful for the new terrain renderer: water, rocks, cliffs, sand, dirt, a vast swath of foilage and ground cover types, etc.

So this is basically an offer to shoot for any possible Project needs & to provide the results with a licence that works best for the project of course.

Be as specific as you can & you can even point to non-free examples I can try to capture in my own inimitable way.

That's about it.

- Regards, RV

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[Olrox]

Hey man,
I'm wondering if Mangust would be interested in some of those - I'll point this topic to him so he can think about what he's needing, and then see if you can get some nice opportunities during your trips - so that you can try and get some nice shots in your own inimitable way

For using it with AR, currently GPLv2 + CC-BY-SA-3.0 or any other less-restrictive license is fine - you can be sure that we'll give the proper credits for you (you're already in the "special thanks" section of any of my projects anyway, for widening my artistical scope in ways unimaginable, as well as showing to myself some of my greatest flaws and qualities - you're uncle Rman by this time, LOL ).

Hopefully Mangust will get to you and tell you what kind of pic would come handy for us. Thank you very much for the generous offer, whatever is the outcome.

~Olrox

[cybersphinx]

You wouldn't happen to have access to a plane/helicopter/balloon... there, to shoot ground images from Warzone camera height? In at least some of the current textures, the wrong scale is painfully obvious...As for what is needed exactly I'm not sure, I guess you know the old tilesets better than me, anything that could replace those. Also, for images to use as textures lighting is important, it should be as even and with as little shadows as possible (noon or overcast sky), so they can be tiled and rotated as needed.

[Buginator]

Is cliff diving with a bungee cord out as one of your options cybersphinx ? You can take twice as many pictures from all sorts of different elevations.

It would be really cool if you could manage to get shots from different elevations though, and I assume you would use a high of a resolution as your camera supports?

I also think we could use some new skyboxes ( so pictures of sky / moon / sun / sunset / stars / mountains / lake and stuff like that) would come in very handy. Maybe if you run into any megalomaniacs like Dr. Reed, or poltergeists those will come in handy one day as well.

I guess the bottom line is, whatever you think would be useful to the project.

[Rman Virgil]

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Olrox: "Uncle Rman." LOL.

Well bud, seriously, there's no doubt we are kindred spirits in many ways and that your work and insights have in-turn widened my horizons across the board, in quite a few areas, lo this past year & done so with your own inimitable style for which there is a perfect word from the French - "panache".

Yea, if I can provide anything that will facilitate AR's cause I will, so definitely point Mangust this way. There's still 2 weeks before I leave, plenty of time to put together a specific list of stuff to shoot and blend into my itinerary up at the lake.

cybersphinx: Well if I was going to the Wine Country like Mendocino or Calistoga, at sea-level, I would have balloon & glider plane access but up in the Sierras at Tahoe - I think not. Way too dangerous. There is a small commercial airport up there but I've never used it - I've always driven up..

There are some choppers but they are mainly used for search and rescue or fire-fighting and such, so I'm not sure what my chances of getting on one are. Again, at sea-level in the Bay Area it's easily doable but I'm just gonna be driving through San Fran on my way up to Tahoe and won't have the time there to set-up a chopper flight.

All that said, I know I will be able to shoot at different elevation overlooks, especially driving up the grade to Truckee and also on some hikes within Tahoe Lake I'll be doing in the Emerald Bay - Meeks Bay areas and up into the awesome Desolation Wilderness.

What would help would be if you could give me an approximate distance from "eye" to target for the scale issue. I know what you mean but I dunno how to figure out that best range for the WZ scale.

Also, for images to use as textures lighting is important, it should be as even and with as little shadows as possible (noon or overcast sky), so they can be tiled and rotated as needed.

For sure will follow those guidlines.

Buginator: Oh yea, baby, I gots mad base-jumping skills..... NOT ! Hehe. I'm afraid my crazy bungee jumping days are behind me, alas. Though I do still hang-glide when I stay in San Fran down south of the city at Thornton Beach but I'm just very average and only good enough to keep from crapping my pants or from crashing into the Pacific and being a tasty morsel for the Great Whites that hang out looking to gobble-up pilot seals. Anyway, doing helmet Cam shooting while hang-gliding would, in my case, yield crap I'm sure.

But again, I will be able to do variable elevation shooting but that scale thing I need you guys to give some specific guideline to work with.

"Sky Box" shots - I didn't even think about those. Yea, that would be fun and cool to try and capture some of those that could be of use. The air up at the Tahoe elevation is crystal clear and at night the constellations look like you can just about reach up and touch 'em. Plus on the North Western shore, were I'll be home-basing, there is practically no man-made lights from towns, roads or cities to interfere or distort nature's ambient illumination - makes for some other-worldly, magical slow exposure shots.

And yes I'll be shooting at the highest resolution.

- RV

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[MaNGusT]

It will be hard to make some good terrain photos because to make a good texture I need a photo of homogeneous surface without shadows but to make photos of the sky will be much easier, I think.

[Rman Virgil]

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It will be hard to make some good terrain photos because to make a good texture I need a photo of homogeneous surface without shadows but to make photos of the sky will be much easier, I think.

If I experience some ideal weather conditions I'll give it my best to get shots that are of homogeneous surfaces with minimal shadow, if any. I think I understand how the terrain renderer works and the tile rotation issues that are involved. Besides the conditions mentioned by cybersphinx to avoid that deal with weather, there is also at play, with any stone or rock for example, the protuberances our eyes interpret as 3D or perspective and these will cast shadow under most lighting conditions (as well defined "edges" which become "lines" which invoke problems with the seamless rotation & blending of the New Terrain renderer's functionality). "Most" is the operative word here and where the "hard" comes in is in finding the best angle that minimizes that. Same with ground cover. (Water I'm not sure about yet.) Btw all these parameters are almost the opposite of what my eye normally looks for in finding opportunities for interesting, dramatic, shots. That's also a challenge I find attractive.

This post of yours, along with cybersphinx's, gives me very clear and exacting guidelines to go for. I'm also thinking that in meeting these parameters, issues of scale will also be more manageable on both the shooting side & texture creation end. (That's an intuition I'm not able to explain at this point.)

Hmmm.. good input. It is already predisposing my eye's pattern recognition to finding those ideal surfaces and conditions.

Your right, shots for use as sky boxes will be easier.

- RV

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[Rman Virgil]

Even though I said this in my last post:

I'm also thinking that in meeting these parameters, issues of scale will also be more manageable on both the shooting side & texture creation end. (That's an intuition I'm not able to explain at this point.)

I still, if possible, would like some guideline on this earlier query:

What would help would be if you could give me an approximate distance from "eye" to target for the scale issue. I know what you mean but I dunno how to figure out that best range for the WZ scale.

Armed with both tactical parameters I would be better equipped in my overall shooting strategy I think.

Still 9 days to go before I jet, so there's time to come up with something.

We are all aware of WZ's wonky scale when it comes to game objects but it would be nice to advance the cause on the terrain side.


- Regards RV
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[Rman Virgil]

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I still, if possible, would like some guideline on this earlier query:

"What would help would be if you could give me an approximate distance from "eye" to target for the scale issue. I know what you mean but I dunno how to figure out that best range for the WZ scale."

Armed with both tactical parameters I would be better equipped in my overall shooting strategy I think.

Well then, my solution going forward is to resort to a combo of instinctive "eye-balling" and multiple distance telephoto shooting of any given terrain subject.

Can't think of anything else.

- RV


EDIT: I'm also adding the following to the overall shooting list for Berg's cool modeling art work.

• Berg wrote:
  
  Thank you for this offer.
  
  wish list
  
  steel boiler tanks with rivets in them
  
  rusted painted surfaces with pealing paint. prefer grey or very dull colour paint. on steel of course
  
  corrugated iron sheds
  
  machine parts with lots of nuts and bolts holding it together.
  
  steel bridges prefer riveted. but bolted is good

Anything else, do not hesitate to add here.
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[Buginator]

Rman, I don't suppose you will have access to a high speed camera, and things that go boom?
If not, cactus and or tumbleweed would make some nice features.

I also don't think there is a right answer for the distance quandary, it is just 'whatever works, once we stick it in the game.

[Rman Virgil]

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Rman, I don't suppose you will have access to a high speed camera, and things that go boom?

Haha... (Homeland Security, if your listening, I never play with real life explosives ... just in virtual game worlds...)

Nope on the gear. No first hand experience with that type of photography either. I do find it very interesting but my photo heroes-mentors (from their work) are Ansel Adams, Edward Weston, Man Ray and Henri Cartier-Bresson.

Funny you should mention high-speed because my main interest is just the exact opposite - very slow time exposures in little or no discernible artificial ambient light or just nature's nighttime lighting - stars, moon. I don't see any application for these type here unless someone was into creating radioactive terrain textures or off world textures.

If not, cactus and or tumbleweed would make some nice features.

No cactus on this trip but succulents and tumble weed type veg in natural habitats are doable. Actually, on second thought, I may be able to do cactus in the Golden Gate Arboretum - and other desert type veg. .... exotics as well, South America Amazon, Equatorial African, etc. I'll check it out.

I also don't think there is a right answer for the distance quandary, it is just 'whatever works, once we stick it in the game.

Ok. Hopefully doing a 3 different range for each terrain subject will yield one that is useful.

- Regards, RV

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[cybersphinx]

I also don't think there is a right answer for the distance quandary, it is just 'whatever works, once we stick it in the game.

Ok. Hopefully doing a 3 different range for each terrain subject will yield one that is useful.

Well, some more thought about the scale. Assuming you want to get a 2048x2048 terrain texture (the ones in trunk are either that or 1024x1024). With a 12 MP camera you get an image of ~4000x3000 pixels, now you can take the middle, or scale the whole image down, so there's a 1.5x scale factor from the source image alone (6 MP would be the lowest needed for that size, without the possibility of scaling; for a 1024x1024 texture, you have a factor of 3x).

And as Buginator said, the exact scale probably doesn't matter that much, as long as it isn't from too close up - standing on a chair will look too close, a bridge probably works, even if the actual distance is off by some degree. And the less the image makes it possible to gauge the scale, the less the real distance matters.

[Rman Virgil]

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Well, some more thought about the scale. Assuming you want to get a 2048x2048 terrain texture (the ones in trunk are either that or 1024x1024). With a 12 MP camera you get an image of ~4000x3000 pixels, now you can take the middle, or scale the whole image down, so there's a 1.5x scale factor from the source image alone (6 MP would be the lowest needed for that size, without the possibility of scaling; for a 1024x1024 texture, you have a factor of 3x).

And as Buginator said, the exact scale probably doesn't matter that much, as long as it isn't from too close up - standing on a chair will look too close, a bridge probably works, even if the actual distance is off by some degree. And the less the image makes it possible to gauge the scale, the less the real distance matters.

Ok. Thanks for that specificity guideline. I'll be using my 10 MP. BTW.

Well, off to finish packing, etc.. I'll check-in from the field when I can.

- Regards, RV

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[Buginator]

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Rman, I don't suppose you will have access to a high speed camera, and things that go boom?

Haha... (Homeland Security, if your listening, I never play with real life explosives ... just in virtual game worlds...)

Nope on the gear. No first hand experience with that type of photography either. I do find it very interesting but my photo heroes-mentors (from their work) are Ansel Adams, Edward Weston, Man Ray and Henri Cartier-Bresson.

Funny you should mention high-speed because my main interest is just the exact opposite - very slow time exposures in little or no discernible artificial ambient light or just nature's nighttime lighting - stars, moon. I don't see any application for these type here unless someone was into creating radioactive terrain textures or off world textures.

I think it would have been pretty cool to have time lapsed explosion effects that we could use. Was watching Myth Busters, where they stuck some artificial creamer down a tube, light a flare, and then make a nice big boom.

[Rman Virgil]

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Must have round 1,000 pics at this point. Most are for my stuff but I have quite a few that may be of use here.

With so many shots I've a fair bit of organzing to do - seperating my use from those for WZ, making best shot selections & finally catagory archives. This will take some days to get done. After I have some archives organized I'll start uploading to Zarel's server - if that works.

I already have some pics selected that I personally like & will create a seperate thread here in the Lounge BB to share a sampling so you get an idea of what I meant when I said my shooting aesthetic is the exact opposite of what was called for in practical application as possible WZ assets.

Now some comments on the WZ related shooting.

The weather has been bright, clear, and sunny throughout this journey which means I only had flat light for WZ shots at high noon - not exactly the ideal for the practical strictures desired to achieve the best results.

As to specific shots for the Terrain Renderer:

1.) All the elevations I was able to access overlooked dense forrest, no esposed earth or sward.

2.) Came upon much cliff-face but none was suitable for how the New Terrain Renderer works.

3.) In my jet fly-overs I've determined that the best way to get RL ground terrain (none cliff or forrested) would be by chopper - not something I had access to on this trip.

4.) Becuase of # 2 & # 3 I have thought of photo texture "work-arounds" werein you would be "faking" the terrain that could work with the strictures of the New Terrain Renderer. I have taken shots along these lines (& continue to do so).

5.) Have taken shots that could work for Sky Boxes.

6.) Ditto vegetation.

7.) Ditto Berg's requests for structure model textures.

Later today or mañana I'll make that new thread & start posting a sampling of my own favorite pics so far. I'll also begin organizing those catagorized archives for possible WZ asset use. Would also like to get back to "Aqua Co-op SE / EE".

- RV
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