research path - autorepair

[guciomir]

I can get autorepair very easily and very fast- I think this technology should have more requirements (like high level upgrades for cyborg and tank armors and HPs - densities and such)

Of course there should be discussion for this, but what should be pretty obvious -> please make heavy repair technology needed to research autorepair. It does not make sense to have autorepair when I do not have repair technology!

[Emdek]

Maybe it's good idea to make getting of so much powerful technology harder.

[icefire]

Adding a requisite for repair tech seems like common sense. But getting auto repair fast? Unless you're cheating you need to grind your way all the way up to NSRB 2 before you can get it. That takes AT LEAST 40+ minutes...

[Olrox]

Adding a requisite for repair tech seems like common sense. But getting auto repair fast? Unless you're cheating you need to grind your way all the way up to NSRB 2 before you can get it. That takes AT LEAST 40+ minutes...

This, or you aren't researching weapons and structures, which will get you killed with or without auto-repair if your opponents are balancing their research paths

Auto-repair is most effective with large quantities of low-HP units, as they repair very fast, since they all do so simultaneously. On larger units, it is almost unnefective, you have to let them stand still without firing for some 15 minutes if you want them to repair from yellow state to full green.

Auto-repair is also a nice thing for structures, since they don't need trucks standing around anymore to be restored (unless you've got a fortress or something that had taken focused attacks for some time - then you'll want some 3 trucks near them to help with repairs.

I think that the right path for making auto-repair a bit more difficult to get is to add specific requirements right before it (Nanorobotic Welder MkI, MkII and MkIII, for example, and then the Auto-repair tech), to give a clear hint that "if you research those you'll get auto-repair immediately afterwards". Those should be quick researches, nonetheless. But making the research tree even more intricate? Nah, that's a last choice IMHO.

However, I don't think that Auto-Repair is much of a big deal. It keeps you from making some micro-management (no real need for field mechanics after you get it, they get killed too easily and they are limited to 1 unit at a time, not to mention dumb movement), but won't save you from a really tight situation. Killed units won't auto-repair, and warzone already focuses fire automatically too often. Therefore, I don't see a real need to tweak the pre-reqs for it, it is already expensive and sort of slow. This is my opinion, and just that (I dunno, some people seem to be too aprehensive when I say something in more than 3 lines)

~Olrox

[Zarel]

Auto-repair explicitly doesn't require any repair tech. It's the same reason why lasers don't require machinegun tech - gives tech rushers something to rush for. Anyway, useful technology simply shouldn't be hard to get.

[3drts]

Auto-repair is most effective with large quantities of low-HP units, as they repair very fast, since they all do so simultaneously. On larger units, it is almost unnefective, you have to let them stand still without firing for some 15 minutes if you want them to repair from yellow state to full green.
...
However, I don't think that Auto-Repair is much of a big deal. It keeps you from making some micro-management
... but won't save you from a really tight situation. Killed units won't auto-repair, and warzone already focuses fire automatically

I agree with most of what you said, except the best for weak units.

If they are weak, and fire is focused, your low HP units will either be in perfect health, or dead and the rare one that is damaged, the amount of damage auto-repait "undoes" will be insignificant.
Dead units don't auto repair, low HP units end up as dead units really easily when they take damage.

Auto repair really shines when the enemy is using AoE weapons.

50 auto repairing units have a prodigious cumulative repair rate.

[Olrox]

I agree with most of what you said, except the best for weak units.

If they are weak, and fire is focused, your low HP units will either be in perfect health, or dead and the rare one that is damaged, the amount of damage auto-repait "undoes" will be insignificant.
Dead units don't auto repair, low HP units end up as dead units really easily when they take damage.

Auto repair really shines when the enemy is using AoE weapons.

50 auto repairing units have a prodigious cumulative repair rate.

I speak about speed of repair, not effective repairable damage. If you get 100 cyborgs set to retreat at medium damage to a nearby repair facility, you can deploy half of them back to the frontlines by the time the other half is retreating to repair.

Which will never work if you use "do or die" tactics where you send all your units to attack, and then use auto-repair only when the targets are destroyed.

~Olrox

[3drts]

If the units can retreat before death, then yes, auto repair will be more effective, and the more units you have auto repairing at once, the greater the effect of the auto repair technology, and obviously cheaper units = more units.

But if its 2.2 balance (before the HPV wars), with scorpion track lancer wars..... there isn't a whole lot of retreating going on - a salvo goes off, units die.

I suppose since most anti-cyborg weapons are high ROF, and deal their damage over time, rather than in "lump sums" like the slower reloading cannons and rockets, and since cyborgs are smaller and its easier for them to find a retreat path, cyborgs may work well with auto repair, and cyborgs do qualify as cheap numerous units.

But as far as the tanks go, I think auto repair is most effective when used with tanks that can take a lot of damage.

[Olrox]

If the units can retreat before death, then yes, auto repair will be more effective, and the more units you have auto repairing at once, the greater the effect of the auto repair technology, and obviously cheaper units = more units.

But if its 2.2 balance (before the HPV wars), with scorpion track lancer wars..... there isn't a whole lot of retreating going on - a salvo goes off, units die.

I suppose since most anti-cyborg weapons are high ROF, and deal their damage over time, rather than in "lump sums" like the slower reloading cannons and rockets, and since cyborgs are smaller and its easier for them to find a retreat path, cyborgs may work well with auto repair, and cyborgs do qualify as cheap numerous units.

But as far as the tanks go, I think auto repair is most effective when used with tanks that can take a lot of damage.

Well, but you'll probably want fast repair units instead of relying on auto-repair, for the toughest units. As I've said, those take ages to repair and, in the meanwhile, they must stand still and harmless, otherwise the auto-repair is even slower. And yeah, I forgot to say, I was speaking more specifically about cyborgs with "low-HP units in large quantities", given the fact that everyone on 2.2 seems to be mostly limited to rockets. Hmmm, nahh, not only rockets. Missiles also

I've always used cyborgs to counter those, tech-rushing to Super Pulse Laser Cyborg - now a powerful AA weapon as well, it shines against tanks with Rockets/Missiles as well as cyborgs. I think that's my all-time favorite unit.

But anyway, I really don't think we need to make more prereqs for auto-repair. IMO it's fine as it is.

~Olrox