Human Units?

[Akamadoushi]

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but I've been wondering about cheap human units in WZ2100, which would be available from the start (as opposed to requiring cyborg research). They'd easily be the least expensive units in the game, but wouldn't have the mobility, armor, or HP of vehicles and cyborgs as they're restricted to moving on foot with what armor they can carry on their own shoulders. In small numbers, they'd be able to avoid enemy sensors and attack a base without alerting automatic defenses. Also potentially good for early game rushing, but of course easily mowed down like the scavengers.

If a tank is badly damaged, the player should be given the option of ejecting the vehicle crew before it is destroyed. Vehicle crews would be restricted to light armor and pistol-class weapons (automatically upgrading to machine pistols rather than heavy pistols). Light body has 1 crew, medium has 2 crew, heavy has 3 crew, super heavy has 4 crew.

If an enemy vehicle has been abandoned, or the crew inside it killed, human units can be directed to it and will capture it for the player's use.

General upgrades could include training programs to increase movement speed, GPS units to allow them to make use of allied sensors, medical kits to allow automated healing (long before vehicles and cyborgs can self-repair), and ammo packs to increase ROF.

Armor:
Instead of a body design option like vehicles, human units would have 3 selectable armor classes. A vest offers a tiny HP increase, but doesn't limit mobility at all as it's only torso armor. Body armor is a vest with elbow pads, kneepads, and a helmet, restricting mobility somewhat in exchange for higher HP. A suit would cover all or most of the body in protective plating, reducing mobility significantly but offering a good HP boost.

Weapons
Weapons would be divided into a number of classes, like turreted weapons.

Pistol
Extremely cheap and light, but not very damaging and only good against soft targets (unarmored vehicles, other human units). Vehicle crews have them automatically. Pistols would have their own passive upgrade line (zinc jackets for damage, laser sights for accuracy, sound suppressors for enemy detection, etc.)

Pistol
Semi-automatic handgun firing 9mm JHP. Limited range, power, and ROF. Replaced by the Machine Pistol and Revolver.

Machine Pistol
Fully automatic handgun firing 9mm JHP. Much higher ROF than the Pistol, with equal power and slightly lower accuracy. Replaced by the Tactical Machine Pistol

Tactical Machine Pistol
Fully automatic handgun firing 9mm JHP, includes a folding stock. Equal ROF and power to Machine Pistol, but has much better accuracy.

Revolver
Double-action revolver firing 11.43mm Magnum JHP. Lower ROF than the pistol, but increased damage and accuracy. Replaced by the Heavy Pistol.

Heavy Pistol
Semi-automatic pistol firing 11.45mm Magnum JHP. Equal damage and accuracy to the Revolver, equal ROF to the Pistol.

Automatics
Shoulder-fired automatic weapons like SMGs, Automatic Rifles, and Machine Guns. All but one of these weapons share passive damage upgrades with turreted machine guns (since the upgrades are for ammunition, it makes sense). Other passive upgrades could include reflex sights (accuracy) and extended magazines (ROF).

Submachine Gun
Fully automatic, fires 9mm JHP. Equal damage to Pistol, equal ROF to Machine Pistol, reasonable accuracy, shares damage upgrades with Pistols. Is never replaced by other weapons; it remains as a cheap, light, anti-human weapon. Can also use the Pistol-class sound suppressors.

Assault Rifle
Fully automatic rifle, fires 5.56mm FMJ. Operates like turreted machine gun, with lower ROF and less damage, but is highly accurate. Replaced by Battle Rifle.

Battle Rifle
Fully automatic rifle, fires 7.62mm FMJ. Equal damage to the first turreted machine gun, equal ROF and accuracy to Assault Rifle.

Light Machine Gun
5.56mm FMJ, has equal damage to the Assault Rifle but trades accuracy for ROF and is significantly heavier. Replaced by Medium Machine Gun.

Medium Machine Gun
7.62 mm FMJ, even heavier than the Light Machine Gun. Equal damage and ROF to turreted machine gun, less accuracy as a handheld weapon isn't as stable as a turret.

Marksman
Very long range, very high accuracy. Slow ROF but tremendous damage to soft targets, mostly anti-human weapons. Scope upgrades increase accuracy and range, damage upgrades are shared with automatics. All are bolt-action by default and quite slow, semi-automatic rifles can be researched to vastly increase ROF.

All marksman class weapons have a chance to instantly kill a human or cyborg (30%), or to eliminate a member of a vehicle's crew (5%). Vehicles with multiple crew would suffer penalties to movement and attack rate after losing a member. If all crew in a vehicle die, the vehicle is immobilized and can be hijacked by human units.

Recon Rifle
5.56mm, low damage, only good against other human targets and unarmored vehicles. Replaced by sniper rifle.

Sniper Rifle
7.62mm, good damage, moderately effective against light vehicles (only causes slightly more damage than a single shot from the turret MG, but has a chance of killing crew through armor). Remains selectable even after Anti-Material Rifle is researched.

Anti-Material Rifle
12.7mm, kills human units instantly and causes slightly more damage per shot than the turreted heavy MG (with greater range and accuracy but severely limited ROF). Very heavy and expensive, does not completely replace Sniper Rifle.

Other
Miscellany weapons that don't fit into the other groups.

Grenade Gun
Equal damage to turreted light cannon. Lightweight and cheap, but low ROF and limited accuracy/range. Replaced by Multi-Grenade Launcher and Rocket Propelled Grenade Launcher.

Multi-Grenade Launcher
Grenade gun with a revolving cylinder and a small scope. Equal damage to Grenade gun, but higher ROF, range, and accuracy.

Rocket Propelled Grenade Launcher
66.7mm RPG, excellent range and damage, functions like both a grenade and a small rocket. Very low ROF. Replaced by Rocket Launcher. RPGL units can aim at VTOLs.

Rocket Launcher
84mm rocket, better range and damage than RPGL, but equal ROF. Replaced by Anti-Tank Rocket Launcher. RL units can aim at VTOLs.

Anti-Tank Rocket Launcher
96mm AT rocket, improved damage over RL and more effective against armor. ATRL units can aim at VTOLs.

Flamethrower
A backpack flamer unit, comparable to the basic turreted flamer.

Mortar
Smaller and less damaging than the turreted and stationary mortar systems, but cannot be targeted by CB sensors.

Shotgun
Low range, accuracy, and ROF, but a light and very cheap weapon with good damage against soft targets.

[Saberuneko]

There are already Cyborgs in this game (basicly, armored humans mixed with machine or something like that)

So, this game already has infantry. And it has a wide selection of weapons to choose on them.

[Akamadoushi]

There are already Cyborgs in this game (basicly, armored humans mixed with machine or something like that)

So, this game already has infantry. And it has a wide selection of weapons to choose on them.

Cyborgs come into play pretty quickly in multiplayer, but they don't appear until about 1/3 of the way through the campaign. These infantry would be more like the scavengers, just a bit better trained (ie more able to avoid sensors) like special forces. I also thought ejectable vehicle crews were a good idea. With the exception of ambushes/infiltration they wouldn't see much direct attack usability (aside from massive zerg rush horde attacks due to being so cheap, though a handful of MG towers would make short work of them). I think the marksman rifle line adds another degree of strategy in eliminating drivers.

It might not be as good an idea as I think it is though; these would be people running around in ballistic armor on a battlefield populated by tanks and powered armor.

[Zarel]

Well, your suggestion is not going to be implemented in the official game, if that's what you're asking. Sorry. The game is too well-balanced to mess with the early-game that much (I'm also afraid it would add too much complexity to the game).

However, feel free to implement your suggestion as a mod.

[Akamadoushi]

Well, your suggestion is not going to be implemented in the official game, if that's what you're asking. Sorry. The game is too well-balanced to mess with the early-game that much (I'm also afraid it would add too much complexity to the game).

However, feel free to implement your suggestion as a mod.

I'm afraid you won't be seeing anything but text from me, I can barely grasp modding Battle For Wesnoth and it's a far simpler game (sprite graphics, TBS).

Thanks for the official verdict either way though, I don't know what I was expecting but I thought it was a neat idea and wanted to share.

[Zarel]

I'm sorry. I've been in the same position, having big ideas and wishing they could be implemented. But the thing is, the bigger the change is, the harder it is to make it happen.

There are quite a few modders on the forums, though. It's possible one of them will read your idea, like it, and implement it for you.

[bornemix]

But lets not be sad because of that, let's discuss the idea

I think that something human infantry should be able to do is to SNEAK, that is, use stealth and make ambushes, you know?

Plant mines...

[Akamadoushi]

I think that something human infantry should be able to do is to SNEAK, that is, use stealth and make ambushes, you know?

Yes, that's what I meant by evading sensors; they're not as fast or durable as vehicles and cyborgs, but they're tiny and quiet. My thought is vehicles, artillery, and base defenses wouldn't be able to attack them unless:

A) They attack first, thus alerting the attacked unit and nearby ally units with the sound of gunfire. If the sound suppressors upgrade has been researched, only the attacked unit will be alerted (only if using pistols or the SMG).

B) A human player spots them by vision and directs their units to attack specific targets (return-fire from non suppressed weapons would cause other units to attack automatically).

I envision them as essentially immune to auto-attacks, and thus far more useful against AI than human players...but you can only cover so much base on your screen at a time.

Plant mines...

Ah, now that is a really good idea. Something like the truck's tank traps, only useful? I like it. There should be different mine types that can be researched; IE high explosive (more base damage), anti-tank (better vs armor), incendiary (better vs soft targets, thermal type), and at the very end of mine research, cyanogen chloride (instantly kills all human units and cyborgs in radius, instantly kills the crew of all vehicles, new cyborg research {sealed armor?} could provide immunity).

[3drts]

If "humans" are implemented, I don't think it would even be close to being worth the effort to do the crew ejection thing.

Nor would there be much point in different armor classes, one hit from an AT rocket or a 120 mm high explosive shell... and it won't matter what vest they were wearing.

The machinegun quickly becomes completely ineffective.... now you want even smaller machine pistols and such?
It also wouldn't be worth the effort to add different weapon classes.

The only thing I would be remotely interested in seeing, is making the scavenger infantry buildable, sort of like in the NTW mod (but that mod changed too many other things for my tastes).

[macuser]

Ah, now that is a really good idea. Something like the truck's tank traps, only useful? I like it. There should be different mine types that can be researched; IE high explosive (more base damage), anti-tank (better vs armor), incendiary (better vs soft targets, thermal type), and at the very end of mine research, cyanogen chloride (instantly kills all human units and cyborgs in radius, instantly kills the crew of all vehicles, new cyborg research {sealed armor?} could provide immunity).

Vehicles don't have crews they are droids but I like the idea of mines and tank traps. Tanks traps are rarely ever used and are pretty useless right now as just a "wall" ish structure.

-regards macuser

[morganz]

If a tank is badly damaged, the player should be given the option of ejecting the vehicle crew before it is destroyed. Vehicle crews would be restricted to light armor and pistol-class weapons (automatically upgrading to machine pistols rather than heavy pistols). Light body has 1 crew, medium has 2 crew, heavy has 3 crew, super heavy has 4 crew.

Why is it it's much nicer to upgrade the machine pistols rather than heavy pistols?

[DarkCheetah]

will be a good mod for the cyborgs

[MetalWarrior95]

Well I reccomend to make longer production of cyborgs because its stupid when you can buld them in great numbers at early multiplayer game or in single player when you build 5 cyborg factories...
There should be ordinary infrantry that is not strong and strong...they would be a slower and cyborgs would need to be slower then ordinary infrantry because they are heavy infrantry....Iam a bit sleepy so il will not always have great replies...

[KukY]

Well I reccomend to make longer production of cyborgs because its stupid when you can buld them in great numbers at early multiplayer game or in single player when you build 5 cyborg factories...

Cyborgs are meant to be mass infantry, and you can't mass them if they are built so slow...

[Saberuneko]

Well I reccomend to make longer production of cyborgs because its stupid when you can buld them in great numbers at early multiplayer game or in single player when you build 5 cyborg factories...

Cyborgs are meant to be mass infantry, and you can't mass them if they are built so slow...

I agree with that too... Cyborgs must be deployed fastly.