NewCommer's First Impressions

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123vtemp
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NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by 123vtemp »

I know how valuable first impressions are for Dev's; so it is my please to be of service.
First, I'd like to say hello from the spring project. :)
I've enjoyed game play analysis and balancing with a couple of Spring's projects.
Now there is a bunch of unheard able cats in an "Open Source" Barrel. (Spring and it's member community) xD
I should apologist for english errors; sorry.

WarZone 2100 NewCommer's Review
After you get past the old graphics and the old user interface (mouse) the game is INCREDIBLE.

The Incredible Game Selling Features:
The Build your - one unit - play your own style
An interface which can accomplish most any command an rts gamer would need from a small and simple consul

Additional nice components:
Pathing is a plus - random stuck units [generally when giving a mini map move order] (Pathing feels as tho all with work is done for you, even in combat) (standard formation is nice)
There is one main resource and it does not create a flat game
There are varied commander units which have the ability for intelligent micro so you do not have to
an open source game that actually has a SP Mission
a tech tree that will out last most games

First Impressions:
I do not hold these views, these were what a first impression yielded and what a new player could not grasp.
"*" represents a perceived significant set back

Improvable:
*Over-all the game feels kind of slow
*arty is too complicated - the micro management and baby sitting did not feel balanced with other combat options
*Getting tech to the field has a hang time at the early mind game
*Fells porcy (porc = Scary Defense Spam) [upon which an attack would be useless]
*not enough engaging combat (early game) [since nothing can kill any key enemy targets]
-weapon types stats not varied enough / weapons not unique enough / not enough spacial means of delivering dmg
*unit management not intuitive, but manageable (took 6 games to discover the right click on unit options)
*User interface missions are a good idea Since the user does not know how to use half the interface or that it is even there. (first 3 games I could not figure out how to get trans ports to drop units till I found the right click info)
*Needs a Fight command so units to not drive into more dmg than necessary to start dealing dmg, (units try to stop at max range) this does cause problems when units pile up behind them, unless they are better off not pushing the front units in to closer range
*Needs better in game info (info disappears and can not be revisited) [most specifically tech upgrades] (tech trees are just a rat in a maze)
-needs better in game unit stats
*needs better in game unit use stat ie. what it is for
-Balance looks to be impressive (extensive successful balancing for current game play design)
-Initial balancing looked too watered down
-Differences should be more extreme (it is recognized that empire earth is a good example of too extreme differences coupled with such destructive diversity combination)
-improve screen movement
-game lags far more than would be expected, perhaps partly to to pathing and formations?
-selection management system (for sending ideal commands)
-ingame user configured hot-key system?
(only selecting higher hp units to throw in front of low hp units)
-retreat settings (run back 500 range - run to nearest repair building - Mobile - any available repair)
123vtemp
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by 123vtemp »

"123vtemp" is the popper account with an email address for ^^ "123vtemo" who has not email address

Please note that a beginner's impressions are based off of the limited game design understanding which reflects the the game's ability to sell it's self.
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Zarel
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by Zarel »

123vtemp wrote:"123vtemp" is the popper account with an email address for ^^ "123vtemo" who has not email address
One of the awesome things about phpBB is that we can actually change who posted which message. :)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Artillery management is a bit better in the 2.3 betas - have you tried those?

I'm thinking of adding more "tutorial-like" information in the singleplayer campaign, but that's one of those things that will take a while before I can get to it. :/

What do you dislike about screen movement? It seems fine to me...

As for performance, I've never had a problem with it. For most users, Warzone either works perfectly, or doesn't work at all (it has extremely low system requirements, as long as you have OpenGL support). Out of curiosity, what are the specs of your computer, and are you using the latest drivers?

As for "Needs a Fight command", that's what alt+click is. ;)
anthony velez
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Post by anthony velez »

This game is great what do you mean. And the only thing they should fix is Having the AI automaticly know when they are going to get stuck. So that When you are building Structures you dont have to deal with getting them out.
Last edited by lav_coyote25 on 15 Mar 2010, 15:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: too many size tags
Kamaze
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Re:

Post by Kamaze »

anthony velez wrote:This game is great what do you mean. And the only thing they should fix is Having the AI automaticly know when they are going to get stuck. So that When you are building Structures you dont have to deal with getting them out.
SUP DAWG! I HEARD YOU LIKE THE SIZE TAG, SO WE'RE THINKING ABOUT PUTTING MORE SIZE TAGS IN YOUR SIZE TAGS, SO THAT YOU CAN SIZE YOUR TEXT WHILE YOU SIZE IT!
Last edited by lav_coyote25 on 15 Mar 2010, 15:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: too many size tags - and all caps is yelling - which is not a good thing. kthnksbai
We all have the same heaven, but not the same horizon.
Michal
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by Michal »

The above 2 posts' awesomeness killed me.

Bye bye, happy warzoning.... :D
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Alpha93
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Re: Re:

Post by Alpha93 »

Kamaze wrote:
anthony velez wrote:This game is great what do you mean. And the only thing they should fix is Having the AI automaticly know when they are going to get stuck. So that When you are building Structures you dont have to deal with getting them out.
SUP DAWG! I HEARD YOU LIKE THE SIZE TAG, SO WE'RE THINKING ABOUT PUTTING MORE SIZE TAGS IN YOUR SIZE TAGS, SO THAT YOU CAN SIZE YOUR TEXT WHILE YOU SIZE IT!
This is made of win and awesomeness.
On topic, imo the micromanagement is fine,but that's me, since I like micromanaging my units.
Last edited by lav_coyote25 on 15 Mar 2010, 01:04, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited due to too much size tagging... please dont. kthnksbai...
Xfire-->chris37killer
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bornemix
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by bornemix »

If we switch pathfinding engine, I think, then one can start micromanaging them like one can in RA2; putting ones tanks in rows, etc...

As it is, they seem kind of allergic to eachother, backing off if another unit comes close.

Also, successful formation of units is important stragical-wise (remember the turtle formation of the romans?), so that's definetely something on which we should take a closer look.
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Buginator
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by Buginator »

bornemix wrote:If we switch pathfinding engine, I think, then one can start micromanaging them like one can in RA2; putting ones tanks in rows, etc...

As it is, they seem kind of allergic to eachother, backing off if another unit comes close.

Also, successful formation of units is important stragical-wise (remember the turtle formation of the romans?), so that's definetely something on which we should take a closer look.
Switch it to what?
I haven't noticed any open sourced GPL code that we can use...
and it ends here.
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bornemix
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by bornemix »

I don't know, but it's certainly something that should be investigated :)
stiv
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by stiv »

bornemix wrote:I don't know, but it's certainly something that should be investigated :)
Are you volunteering for this task?
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bornemix
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by bornemix »

Aren't you? :)
stiv
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by stiv »

bornemix wrote:Aren't you? :)
No. Because
a) I have other things I'm interesting in working on at the moment - Blender tools
b) I'm not the one suggesting that perhaps maybe there is a pathfinding library that perhaps maybe exists that could perhaps maybe be used with WZ and that someone else should spend time searching for this Holy Grail.

Not to tee off on you in particular, but I find this "Someone should do something" attitude annoying. In Open Source projects, things get done because someone did the work. Yes, recognizing there is a problem is a step towards fixing it, but "pathfinding sucks" is not a problem statement, it is generic whining and brings us no closer to solving a problem.

If you have specific suggestions for improving WZ's implementation of the A* pathfinding algorithm we would love to hear them. A patch with actual code would be even better. And no, "make it better" doesn't count as a useful suggestion.
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bornemix
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by bornemix »

Not to tee off on you in particular, but I find this "Someone should do something" attitude annoying.
Yes, but as a developer I should be entitled to saying such things :)

I know at least a few people who could help in at least researching this. I'll be back regarding this issue... :ninja:
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Re: NewCommer's First Impressions

Post by iap »

If I may add my thoughts: I lack the knowledge of actually writing the code of pathfinding, however I do have knowledge about algorithms such as this, and can contribute alot in understanding and suggesting logical methods of solving the problem.

If there was a discussion thread specifically about adjusting the pathfinding algorithm, where instead of saying "pathfinding sucks" to the developpers we actually helping by giving guidlines to solving it and testing them step by step then it would be best.

Well it is better then the "someone should do it" attitude, isn't it?