What is being developed?

[episiarch]

Hey.

WTF is going on with unit movement. Particularly repair bots. They swarm all over the place, disrupting a convoy, even when they are close enough to the unit they are specifically assigned to repair.

This happens in all cases, really. Do units lack a reverse-gear? Do they have to advance into enemy territory just to turn around?

This is beyond stupid. This game was released in 1999, and I bought it, and liked it, and it was great, and I thought an Open Source version would have the kinks ironed out. It doesn't. This is beyond stupid.

EDIT: 1999 was over 10 years ago. What are you developing on this project?

[episiarch]

Furthermore, when assigned to a commander units do not respond to any normal instructions. They do not move when I tell them, they do not repair when I tell them... the control structure is essentially *exactly* how I remember the bugs in the original game. This is not acceptable for an Open Source project. Fork wanted.

The pathfinding in this code is completely f*cked. It's... amazing that nothing has been done to fix this. I am watching a repair bot just spin around, go NW, go SE, go SW, go NE in return to original spot. Cannot find assigned repair unit. WTF is the use of such a system?

Pathfinding and swarm code must be fixed. Also, controls are abominable. There are copious examples of the code fixes needed available with a Google search! Please, please, please... create a transparent TODO and provide hooks for where developers can fix the deficient parts of this code. This is a fantastic RTS and the engine is worth improving in my opinion.

One thing that completely erases the illusion of a "technology tree" is automated unit controls that do not work at any level of "technology". This is very alluring as a literary tool, I imagine: human "Open Source" maintainers write software that does not keep pace with actual "AI" developments in common real-time strategy games.

This game will be nothing if it is not maintained.

EDIT: tl;dr: WZ1000 requires development.

Three posts merged.

[DuKe2112]

Just shut up idiot, joining to flame, tsk.

Some points may be valid, but that tone is everything, but.

[episiarch]

I discovered that I can CTRL-click a unit and assign it arbitrary, "normal" commands. The pathfinding is still completely f*cked.

Complain about tone all you want. I guess you are opposed to meritocracy, since all I asked for was improvement.

WZ2100 and I have a date with destiny, perhaps. I have the source code now.

Answer my valid points or GTFO. That is really your choice if you represent the owners of this code.

If you are just a jagoff forum user then my apologies, you deserve to be left alone no matter what you say.

Three posts merged.

[Zarel]

You do realize there's an Edit button, right?

[episiarch]

Thank you for merging. Stream of conscious/stream of play.

Seriously, pathfinding is the thing I would most like to improve. Between developers, it would be helpful if you had any comments regarding the code I'm about to read.

[Zarel]

Anyway, we've been working on other improvements during this time. We're actually working on pathing right now, so we should see much improved unit movement at some point in the future.

...the pathing appears to be the only thing you're complaining about, so, um... okay.

Forking will do nothing that can't also be done by simply submitting a patch to fix the problems you raise, by the way, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.

If you're planning on contributing to pathfinding, I recommend taking a look at:
http://developer.wz2100.net/ticket/1649

Oh, and, yes, DuKe2112 is just a regular forum member. Developers are usually more polite indirect than "Just shut up idiot".

[episiarch]

Actually a more important complaint, from my perspective, is the control interface for units.

It's possible I did not read the provided manual carefully enough. I did not see *anything* about the CTRL-click functionality for commander-assigned units, either in Basic or in Keyboard Shortcuts. Perhaps my efforts can be best appreciated if I update the manual.

Appreciate that you linked me to the dev forums. Can't do anything until I read some code and see what you are working on. I will help if I can.

Also, as you know, the "New Walkthrough" is limited to campaign 1. Links for the "Old Walkthrough" are broken.

Walkthroughs are important for developers. They provide steps to quickly complete scenarios, and they provide information on what the developers expect to be the case when a player encounters the game. If this is your bottleneck, please say so, I will fix it immediately.

[Zarel]

Actually a more important complaint, from my perspective, is the control interface for units.

It's possible I did not read the provided manual carefully enough. I did not see *anything* about the CTRL-click functionality for commander-assigned units, either in Basic or in Keyboard Shortcuts. Perhaps my efforts can be best appreciated if I update the manual.

http://guide.wz2100.net/commanders#detaching

Appreciate that you linked me to the dev forums. Can't do anything until I read some code and see what you are working on. I will help if I can.

Great!

Once you're in cheat mode, I believe Ctrl+M turns on path visualization. Useful, if you're planning on improving it.

Also feel free to join our developer IRC channel:

irc.freenode.net
#warzone2100-dev

Also, as you know, the "New Walkthrough" is limited to campaign 1. Links for the "Old Walkthrough" are broken.

Actually, the New Walkthrough goes up to Gamma 1...

viewtopic.php?p=41932#p41932

Walkthroughs are important for developers. They provide steps to quickly complete scenarios, and they provide information on what the developers expect to be the case when a player encounters the game. If this is your bottleneck, please say so, I will fix it immediately.

Well, just use the biffer baker cheat to rush through levels.

[episiarch]

Well, the production qualities are 1999.

I guess this is Open Source.

[DuKe2112]

Yeah sorry, I'm usually a LOT more polite than that, but this time I just wanted to respond in kind.
That attitude just hit a nerve, seemed like a regular troll at first. I've seen too much of such lately.

@episiarch sorry again, but you might want to rethink on how to start a conversation, people usually don't take to kindly to a rage of complaints mixed with swearing. I even know some devs(other projects) who might have just banned you along with the thread at the point I tried to shut you up.
@Zarel I am really impressed at how you managed to stay THIS calm about it.

[Zarel]

I am really impressed at how you managed to stay THIS calm about it.

Well, he's right; the pathing does suck. I'm usually only irritated if someone is both incorrect and rude.

[stiv]

What I like best about this thread is not the spittle-flecked outrage, fine as it is, but the sense of childish entitlement: I want a pony AND a unicorn and I want it now! Give it to me, you wankers!

The misuse of the word 'meritocracy' is a nice touch, too.

[bornemix]

I'd agree with pathfinding and the unintuitivity of the interface, CTRL-click (or is it right-click?) to bring up strategical-behavioral (?) options took me a while to find out... Someone, or anyone, should start thinking on how to improve that part...

Also, I'd say that the initial post is allright in its tone, since it's an open project then anyone can contribute in the way they see fit, and we don't know the age or situation of the poster either, so... thanks.

(edited to subscribe to replies)