Campaign - gamma 8 is fairly unpleasant. [SPOILERS]

[3drts]

Strategies require anticipating enemy action.

Laser behavior is arbitrary.

Having a difficult time with the stage, is not because of poor strategy.

Sure play it enough, and its easy when you know exactly what threats you will face, and how the threat behaves.
There was no logical reason to assume the laser would waste its time on targets of no value up north, or to assume that attacks would start in the north, or that they wouldn't just be all over the map, targeting factories and grouped units.

Beating scripted ai isn't strategy, its just recognition of programming, and formulating a response.

Strategy comes into play more on a team game on a map like mizamaze or bananas, in multiplayer

[Zarel]

That's indeed why I think it should be improved.

What would be the logical way to deal with a lassat? Myself, I suppose I'd hide underground. There should be a "hide underground" stage. It would be awesome!

That's what my new campaign will have! A "hide underground" stage! Who wants to make an "underground" map?

[themousemaster]

That's indeed why I think it should be improved.

What would be the logical way to deal with a lassat? Myself, I suppose I'd hide underground. There should be a "hide underground" stage. It would be awesome!

That's what my new campaign will have! A "hide underground" stage! Who wants to make an "underground" map?

Is this sarcasm? Part of the Zarel v2.0 poster?

...

I had said that a floating "reticle" showing where the LASSAT is re-targetting to might be one way to adjust the stage... another way might just be to have a popup message, that displays after the first 5 or 6 firings, that says "it appears the LASSAT is attacking our northern forces first and moving southward".

Basically, anything to tip off the player how the LASSAT operates, allowing them to adjust.

While "player experience" might have something to say about that ("Why should the computer take away the challenge?" Is a cry I can imagine hearing), since the player doesn't have any idea as to where the LASSAT is hitting UNLESS they see the laser (or the resulting burning ex-structures), it can be unreasonable for them to deduce the pattern for themselves. It's not like the Project doesn't have other people working for it that can be busy analyzing this themselves (last I checked, the commanders of Alpha, Beta, and Gamma were all present with you, I'm sure those other 2 aren't just sitting on their butts during all this)

[Zarel]

Is this sarcasm? Part of the Zarel v2.0 poster?

No, I'm serious. I'm pretty sure we have enough terrain tiles to make an underground map, in the Mountain tileset.

I had said that a floating "reticle" showing where the LASSAT is re-targetting to might be one way to adjust the stage... another way might just be to have a popup message, that displays after the first 5 or 6 firings, that says "it appears the LASSAT is attacking our northern forces first and moving southward".

We already have a blinking red dot where the lassat is firing (recently added in 2.3)...

[KukY]

We already have a blinking red dot where the lassat is firing (recently added in 2.3)...

I have never seen it...

[Zarel]

I have never seen it...

"Recently added in 2.3"

Have you been attacked with a lassat recently? It's not exactly a common occurrence.

[KukY]

I have to be atacked?

[themousemaster]

For the campaign, I didn't mean "where it's firing", as by that point it's a bit late. I meant a reticle that slides along the ground showing the player in gamma 5-8 the progression of the LASSAT, giving him a touch of time to react.

That said, since I'm fairly certain that's not how the LASSAT operates in those stages (it just fires, it doesn't adjust aim gradually), just having a info message telling the player what's up would probably be much easier.

For an added bonus, have that info message show up the stage BEFOREHAND (the stage where the intro says "the laser satellite seems to be firing erratically"), so that the player actually has the headsup as to what is going to happen early enough that he can prepare for it during the previous stage. Don't explicitly say "the LASSAT will generally only target your northernmost buildings", but a line akin to "the LASSAT's orbit is taking it on a path from north to south, but it needs to stop to align a shot" might do the trick.

[psychopompos]

chaff smoke would likely be useful against laser weapons as a cheap measure.
how to implement it im not sure.

i liked gamma 8, it can put you off balance in a way other missions... just cant.

[Zarel]

chaff smoke would likely be useful against laser weapons as a cheap measure.
how to implement it im not sure.

If a laser can do significant damage to a tank, I doubt smoke will stop it much.

[Zarax]

Smoke blocks *targeting* lasers from "seeing" correctly the objective behind, it doesn't nothing to disperse its energy.

Now, firing a cloud of glass dust might lessen its impact since part of the laser is dispersed by its reflective properties, although for the estimated energy it would be like a pillow to shield against a running truck...

If we want a semi realistic solution there could be a "ASAT missile" research, in which you can build (expensive) missiles that will keep the satellite busy shooting them instead of your base.

Good luck coding that though.

[themousemaster]

Smoke blocks *targeting* lasers from "seeing" correctly the objective behind, it doesn't nothing to disperse its energy.

Now, firing a cloud of glass dust might lessen its impact since part of the laser is dispersed by its reflective properties, although for the estimated energy it would be like a pillow to shield against a running truck...

If we want a semi realistic solution there could be a "ASAT missile" research, in which you can build (expensive) missiles that will keep the satellite busy shooting them instead of your base.

Good luck coding that though.

For the campaign, that's pretty much what the GAMMA8 stage is, after all... just on a slightly higher orbit scale

[ClockWork]

Yeah, I agree, that's pretty frustrating.

How would you improve the level?

Well…GAMMA 8 is pretty much to the point where things are suppose to be hard. I remember I was aggravated by that level, but that just means that part of the game stood out for me. It gave a challenge, instead of always needing to be beaten by the timer.
When I first picked up this game, I would always use the last bodies and propulsions that I researched, figuring they were the best. Meaning heavy bodies with tracks, which you could imagine was slooow. But the laser satellite gave me a new view. It told me…move your units, or else this will happen! And thus, I learned that speed is rather important. Although I had used lighter units for speed before, this situation created an epiphany for me, making me change my strategy.

Yep, like in Starcraft, with the "Nuclear launch detected!" message and everybody goes scrolling wildly about the map searching for the red dot...

I lol’d. ahh…I love watching replays when people make nukes…those are the bomb!

[Assault Gunner]

Well... Nukes are bombs. But yes, it is fun watching replays with nuclear weapons. It is even more fun being the one with the nukes, of course.

Now, the symbol would have to be a bit larger, if only because and equally-scaled dot would be 2X2 in pixels. I would suggest them being about the size of this O, or this o, no matter the zoom. that way, they would be visible if you watched for it.

[psychopompos]

If a laser can do significant damage to a tank, I doubt smoke will stop it much.

true of normal smoke, chaff smoke is a lil different, it is very dense black toxic crap full of metal filings.
the refraction effect from such would provide protection. not necessary nullification but still protection.