Campaign - gamma 8 is fairly unpleasant. [SPOILERS]

[kringled]

Hopefully, if you want the later parts of the campaign to be a surprise, you won't read much further.




I have to say, gamma 8 is really sort of sucking the fun out of the game. Sitting there for interminable rounds of research and just watching the laser sats blast my base into bits was very irritating. How many rounds of missile codes do I have to research?

Keith

Edited: Whoops, sorry, I meant to post this in the general discussion forum. Can't see a way to delete my own post though. Moved.

[Zarel]

It's three rounds of missile codes, iirc. Only lasts five minutes, anyway... Not that much of your base should get destroyed.

Or are you talking about the one with Nexus resistance circuits? Just pump out low price low damage tanks, like MG Viper Wheels (I think sensor turrets might work, too), then keep a few experienced lancer tracks nearby. Nexus only takes over units with low experience (or units that are newly created - it's hard to tell the difference), so you won't lose anything important.

[kringled]

Thanks for the topic move.

It is gamma 8; the first 5 minutes are while Nexus is giving you a deadline, then after that, I'm not sure how long as there's no mission timer. You have to research the Nexus program and then 3 rounds of missile codes. I want to say that I was maybe 40% done with the first research at 5 minutes? So at that, it's maybe 30-45 minutes of near continual laser satellite blasting. That being said, now that I know I have 30 minutes to re-establish support facilities (research, power, factories, HQ) at the start of gamma 9, it's a bit better.
It's not that it was so much damage that I couldn't cope with it; it's more that it was just frustrating since you can't really take any terribly effective measures.
For whatever reason, this bugged me more than beta - evacuate. Knowing your base is about to be destroyed and watching it happen piecemeal are two different things.

On the Nexus resistance circuits (gamma 5) I pumped out machine gunner cyborgs to keep nexus busy; they
couldn't do much harm. I did trash a few buildings here and there that were absorbed, but that was not so much of a problem to rebuild.

[Zarel]

Yeah, I agree, that's pretty frustrating.

How would you improve the level?

[3drts]

Well, at least it establishes the credibility of the threat.
The NP, collective, all could be wiped out no matter how much they threw at you it seemed.

Nukes you can't really model in game - you would just know that if you have a mission, you can win, just send in the tanks and shell with artillery.

The laser sats at that point were the only thing that really made me think I might loose the game and have to reload, because I lost, and not because that experienced unit of mine died and I want it back.

[kringled]

Yeah, I agree, that's pretty frustrating.

How would you improve the level?

Hrm. A good question, and one I don't really have an answer for just now. I'll have to think about it more; so far all I have are minor tweaks or require doing things I'm not sure are possible.

Keith

[Mats]

I agree with the general opinion here - That this level is a bit boring and frustrating, but also that it's hard to find something to make it more interesting. Maybe make the codes a bit faster to research and make nexus attack a bit stronger to make the level more interesting?

[themousemaster]

The best counter to the LASSAT is preparation... which, considering said prep needs to happen the stage BEFORE, is kind of where the "dammit" factor lies.


What you don't know about the LASSAT until you've played a few times is that it moves on a slow North-south progression on the map, stopping to obliterate stuff as it passes it.

As such, the southward progression can be brought to a crawl by having OMG-amounts of structures going all the way from the top of the map to the bottom.

I myself tend to have 4 distinct "walls" of defense in that stage, with a WHOLE load of scattered MG bunkers (including 1 7X7 patch of solid MGbunkers) just to prep for it.

It works, but... if you don't know to do it... well then, that knowledge doesn't help much.

If you have a previous savegame, then go back to the start of the prior stage, finish it post-haste, and then milk the oilderricks and build defensive walls for the whole duration (the walls double as defenses against Nexus attack, of course). If not... I don't know what to say.





As far as how to change that stage... I suppose I have one suggestion. Maybe, through observation (abstracted in-game, not done by the player specifically), they player can get a "heads up" through a flashing area, moving reticle, or something, as to where the LASSAT is currently adjusting it's aim towards? Won't help much for your bases, but would give one the ability to "retreat" from a "soon to be vaporized" location

[Corporal Punishment]

Yep, like in Starcraft, with the "Nuclear launch detected!" message and everybody goes scrolling wildly about the map searching for the red dot...
By the way, isn't the Lassat in that mission firing erratically? I played it quite a while ago and had the impression it just hits somewhere without regard to whether there is a target to hit or not. I even believe that in the briefing the player is informed that Nexus has difficulties with the Lassat and can't aim properly. So, it should not do that much damage anyway. Or do I think of the wrong stage? It is the one where you sit in the area south of your base at the missile silo watching Nexus fire at the area of your base but neither can you scroll up there nor will the Lassat hit in your area, right?

[Zarel]

In the later 2.3 betas, there's a flashing red dot on the map where the lassat is firing, when the words "Laser satellite firing" are spoken.

[sg1efc]

Funny... I like this level a lot. Thought it was a bit suspenseful.. wondering what was going to happen. I save my games often, a couple times for each level so I don't have to go way back. Once I got through it the first time, I knew to move all my important structures as far to the south as I could.

Oh, and the last level before this level is the one that wouldn't work for me a couple Betas ago. Thanks a lot Zarel for helping me by posting that saved game so I could bypass it until that level worked for me.

[kringled]

When I posted this thread, it was my first time through gamma 8 - I had saved a game at gamma 7 with just under an hour left on the mission timer, and I wanted to play through gamma 8 to know how to prepare. I just finished a second playthrough, where I'd done a lot more preparation, and with enough savegames, I only ended up losing a couple of completely replaceable trucks, and a rookie VTOL. The advance preps both gave the LasSat more stuff to shoot at (sparing critical structures), and also meant that the incoming ground forces never got anywhere and didn't do any harm. When the level ended, I had all the critical structures (factories, research, power) intact save one oil derrick (still burning when the mission ended) and one key structure - my HQ (blasted in the last minute or so before missile launch). With enough advance prep, it goes from unpleasant to simply irritating. I'm still thinking if there are ways to make it a bit less so, though.
Of course, now I have a group completely "stuck", but that's a matter for a bug report (and since gamma 9 is an away mission, I think they'll be retrievable.)

Keith

[icefire]

Personally I don't think this mission should change, yes it's very irritating to see your base go up in flames. But that's exactly what the lassat is supposed to do. You spend half of beta and most of gamma trying to prevent Nexus from gaining control of these things, and for good reason. They are meant to be the ultimate weapon in warzone, they are literally god's hand coming down to smite his enemies. There is no defense other than preparation, you are helpless until you get rid of them manually. That's what Pumpkin was trying to convey with this mission, and for that reason it should stay the same.

[themousemaster]

Personally I don't think this mission should change, yes it's very irritating to see your base go up in flames. But that's exactly what the lassat is supposed to do. You spend half of beta and most of gamma trying to prevent Nexus from gaining control of these things, and for good reason. They are meant to be the ultimate weapon in warzone, they are literally god's hand coming down to smite his enemies. There is no defense other than preparation, you are helpless until you get rid of them manually. That's what Pumpkin was trying to convey with this mission, and for that reason it should stay the same.

That, and you get the "respite" of not having them fire for the last stage

[dragonflythecat]

I see the obvious wasn't mentioned - it is a strategy game and you are not employing the correct strategy for this level.

When you arrive on this map you are to take command of the entire area. Once you own that square area - you want to place long-range base defenses at the top of the map and the bottom of the map for future defense, as new sections open up. If the units first sent to Gamma Base are well thought out - number of trucks against number of tanks for immediate defense, when the level starts. Build quickly and be aggressive - let your trucks do most of the work.

When you own that map section and you still have time on your timer, build every building of significant value in that square area, you'll use them later as cannon fodder for Nexus. Perhaps you have noticed that five trucks can build rather quickly?

After you charge through the pass at the top of the map and conquer the bases you find there and you use that timer to building anything else that you can in that upper space as future base defenses, line the outside perimeter with long range mortar pits of any type.

In this next level Nexus begins to assimilate all your factories, all your tanks and send them against you. This level freak me out good the first time until I saw the mathematics in it. Get a stop watch and time the pattern of attacks by Nexus, pinpoint repeated attack locations, there is consistency in the way that Nexus behaves.

Which is the key to this level - Nexus doesn't assimilate Trucks. When Nexus does assimilate a building or tank - your base defenses are your only defense during this period. Second key to this level is to automatically recycle all Tanks at the beginning of the assimilation process by Nexus - take them out of the equation and certainly don't build anything that can be used against you.

If you were a proactive player you probably have fifteen trucks sitting somewhere on that map away from buildings you know will be assimilated by Nexus. Take your trucks to the upper portion of the map and start re-building your entire base next to base defense positions you have already built to protect yourself from future Nexus assimilation attempts.

If you build a building without base defenses and Nexus gets control of it Nexus can order factories to build units for Nexus to attack you.

You will find that you can build twice as fast or more as Nexus can destroy them. Also these building which you won't produce anything from are basically decoys to be used later when the Laser begins to target your buildings.

If these buildings aren't built by you then when the Laser begins hunting it will find you at the southern most of this map trying to rebuild your last full base with less time than you expected - to have unhindered (not rushed) building at this location, you need to provide the Laser with other targets.

The Laser behaves like a pendulum, swaying back and forth seeking targets, from the top working its way to you. As the Laser destroys your buildings you can begin building at the southern most tip of the map.

The third key to this map is the number of times that the Laser fires during the duration of the play and how many decoy buildings you built to use up the proscribe number of Laser strikes. If you keep these things in mind during game play you should have no problem finishing this level - after all, it is a strategy game isn't it?