Sensor/Commander Game mechanics questions

[kringled]

Some random things about sensors and commanders that I've been wondering about:

1) Standard sensor turrets accumulate experience from kills from their attached artillery, just like commanders. Do they give a bonus to artillery the way commanders do to attached units?

2)With 2.3 beta 10, sensor turrets operate a lot like a sensor tower on wheels; they automatically designate targets when set to "Fire at will". What's more, this covers both attached units as well as artillery structures in range. Is there any way to turn off the connection to structures?

3) Do CB turrets work more like the tower in 2.3b10?

4) I notice that sensors can be attached to commanders. Is there a good reason to do so? (I.e. it might make artillery structures fire from beyond the commander's sensor range?) or not so much?

5) Do people get much use out of attaching VTOLs to either commanders or mobile strike turrets? Guess I'll have to play with this one. Do VTOL strike sensor turrets give bonuses to attached VTOLs?

Keith

[kringled]

Having done a little bit of experimenting, I can answer one of my sub questions.
3) In 2.3 b10, a CB turret works a lot like a CB tower, but mobile.

Also, as of the same version, VTOL strike turrets work like VTOL strike towers. Interestingly, both are able to call in both VTOLs as well as artillery structures (but not mobile artillery).

Answers or guesses at any of the other questions is still welcome.

Keith

[Assault Gunner]

The only reason I can think of to attach sensors to your commander is to attach arty units to your sensor, keeping the slots free on your commander.

[3drts]

but arty units dont count towards your commanders control limit, neither do VTOLs.

I dont know if the indirect fire units or vtols attached to commanders get any bonus, as they dont count towards its limit.

I noticed on a game I played yesterday, a noob ally was building cb turret units, and my ripples werent firing when they clearly were in range and had a sensor in range - i wonder if the turret was acting like a commander with "assign fire support" set, which keeps your artillery from firing unless the commander designates a target.

[Zarel]

1) Standard sensor turrets accumulate experience from kills from their attached artillery, just like commanders. Do they give a bonus to artillery the way commanders do to attached units?

No.

Note: Commanders don't give a bonus to attached artillery, either - that's why they don't limit the number of attachable artillery.

2)With 2.3 beta 10, sensor turrets operate a lot like a sensor tower on wheels; they automatically designate targets when set to "Fire at will". What's more, this covers both attached units as well as artillery structures in range. Is there any way to turn off the connection to structures?

Unfortunately, no.

3) Do CB turrets work more like the tower in 2.3b10?

They've always worked exactly like the tower...

4) I notice that sensors can be attached to commanders. Is there a good reason to do so? (I.e. it might make artillery structures fire from beyond the commander's sensor range?) or not so much?

Not really, no.

5) Do people get much use out of attaching VTOLs to either commanders or mobile strike turrets? Guess I'll have to play with this one. Do VTOL strike sensor turrets give bonuses to attached VTOLs?

It's easier to make VTOLs patrol (alt+click) than to attach them to anything specifically.

Interestingly, both [VTOL strike turrets and VTOL strike towers] are able to call in both VTOLs as well as artillery structures (but not mobile artillery).

...that's a bug. Report it, please.

I noticed on a game I played yesterday, a noob ally was building cb turret units, and my ripples werent firing when they clearly were in range and had a sensor in range - i wonder if the turret was acting like a commander with "assign fire support" set, which keeps your artillery from firing unless the commander designates a target.

That's also a bug, if it's what it sounds like. Can you describe the situation in more detail? What kind of sensor? Was it a tank or structure? etc

[kringled]

Interestingly, both [VTOL strike turrets and VTOL strike towers] are able to call in both VTOLs as well as artillery structures (but not mobile artillery).

...that's a bug. Report it, please.

Reported as bug 1588.

Thanks for the other answers; I hadn't used CB turrets enough previously to know (I mostly had been using CB towers).
Useful to know that the bonuses don't apply to artillery; one of a few good reasons to make sure I accumulate experience (in the campaign) on my artillery units individually.

Since I can't turn off the connection from standard sensors to artillery structures, I guess when I want to just use my mobile artillery, I'll have to detach a commander from direct fire units, or do something else.

Keith

[3drts]

Well, heres how it went, it was on some team map, 4 top spots 4 bottom.
We had a wall going across, roughly halfway, with lancer hardpoints and MG towers, etc.
One of my allies built a line of bunkers 2 tiles in front on my wall.
That line of bunkers was completely destroyed by enemy ripples, and I had a cb tower just up against the wall where this was happening.
For a long time that game, my ripple emplacements weren't doing anything.
Maybe as my ripps were some tiles back from the bunker line, they were just out of range... they looked pretty close though...
I noticed they would occasionally fire, but often sat and did nothing long after they had reloaded, this sucked royaly, as the enemy was able to build up a large number of ripps without my CB suppression.
Eventually they fired at ... something, and enemy ripples began raining down on mine, as mine sat there, not returning fire, long after they had reloaded, with a CB tower just a few tiles away, and were subsequently destroyed by enemy ripples - so ripples were clearly in range.

The only thing I can figure, is maybe it had to do with the sensor units one of my allies was building, he would occasionally send a suicide hover cb unit at the enemy, and I seem to recall a correlation between those suicide runs, and when my ripples actually did anything.

I was too busy to check and see if he had several CB units in reserve, or if the suicide cb unit was his only CB unit.

At some point in the game, my ripps started working normally again.

I think daltx was my ally(? unsure if it was the same game), and he too observed my ripps not doing anything as the bunker line(allied, but not mine) in front was destroyed with my CB tower clearly in range, and then my rips being destroyed and not returning fire.

*maybe* it was just a lag issue, but I *suspect* it had to do with the suicide cb unit....

[3drts]

On a different note:
If attached artillery gets not benefit from sensor or command experience....
and if VTOLs get no benefit from sensor or commander experience....
And if rookie direct fire units attached to a hero commander are just as good as veteran units attached to a hero commander....

Then it seems to me when I have a hero commander, I should recycle my direct fire units, and make VTOL/Artillery units with the experience, then give my commander a bunch or rookie units.

Before I knew the benefits.... I just used commanders to accumulate experience/ double experience, and rotated out commanders once they reacher ≈510 kills to make hero units.

Now my problem is I've got a Hero commander, and my doubling/accumulating experience in one unit is wasted accumulating more experience in the hero commander, so I've split my artillery from the commander to a normal sensor, and I'm considering making a new commander and having my main battle group lead by 2 commanders....
I want my VTOLs to have near hero level stats....

-48% damage (is this before armor is applied, I hope so), -40% accuracy, + 40% speed (is this up to the propulsion max speed, or can a hero VTOL go over 1,000 speed?) - AA can suck it against a wing of these.

[Assault Gunner]

Pretty sure its up to propulsion max. Sorry. Otherwise, yeah. Against a wing of hero VTOLs, AA can suck it. at least until homing SAMs gets implemented.

[Zarel]

Pretty sure its up to propulsion max. Sorry. Otherwise, yeah. Against a wing of hero VTOLs, AA can suck it. at least until homing SAMs gets implemented.

To be exact:

2.2.4: Up to propulsion max.
2.3+: Can go over propulsion max.

[3drts]

Pretty sure its up to propulsion max. Sorry. Otherwise, yeah. Against a wing of hero VTOLs, AA can suck it. at least until homing SAMs gets implemented.

Well, AA homes in, I've noticed my vtols flying back to their landing pad, then seeng the flak explosion go off, lol.
The AA can still suck it though, even sams..... if accuracy is -40%, then at least 40% of their shots will miss (max of 60% will hit), and each shot will do only 0.52 damage.
0.6* 0.52= 0.312 -> A hero Vtol will only take 31.2% the amount of damage a rookie vtol will take, not to mention it will be faster, making it take less AA fire during its run - it wont matter much for a vtol that does multiple attack runs, but for vtols using lancer or such, it will reduce the AA fired at it as well (though this doesn't help much with SAMS that fire in salvos).
Hero VTOLs should be over 3x as strong as rookie VTOLs.
Im definitely going to make my tanks rookies under a hero commander, and my vtols the experienced units.

I still want to know: Is the damage modifier applied before or after armor gets applied?

I'm not sure if missile/scourge upgrades UG sams in campaign, or if they used to, but lets look at the Sams in Beta campaign (I'm assuming they have no missile upgrades at that point)
350 damage (im going by the guide, which doesnt have campaign stats) - one would probably be using Mantis bodies with Upgrades ≈ 2/3 of max,
Lets call it 40 armor.
Rookie might take 350-40 = 310 from each sam
Hero might take 350*.52 - 40 = 142 from each sam.
45% damage, instead of 52%, if it is applied before armor.

I assume the accuracy mod is multiplied by the weapon accuracy, though it could be a strict subtraction.
If this were the case, a weapon with < 40% accuracy would never hit, and a weapon with 50% accuracy would have its hit ratio reduced to 1/5 of its previous ratio...



Is there any way to stop homing weapons from flying halfway across the map to strike a target? make them disappear once out of range, or say... when they've gone 50% farther than their range?
I hate seeing my vtols fly all the way across a map, only to be blown up on the landing pad by a sam that was tailing them the whole time.