Everyone on multiplayer sucks

[Zarel]

Well, I'm glad you showed him how useful flamers can be. He kept on telling me they were too weak. :/

[3drts]

Well, on my hovers, the flamers weren't very good against cannon cobras or lancer cobras, but I don't think HMGs would have done well against the armor of cobra's either, but maybe HMG hovers would have been better.
MGs are pretty bad against medium bodies, but good against hovers, it wasn't like they were tracked medium bodies.
flamer was just what I figured would be the best of a bad situation until lancer.
- If I had continued to inferno on the other hand... hmmmmmmm.....

Mainly their only real effect in the game was his second attack, when I didn't have any weapon that wasn't at the very bottom of its tech tree.
I don't think the mini-pods would have done well against the cobra cannons on their own, especially with only 1 or two upgrades, but a flamer with just one or two upgrades is quite effective, if you can get in range.
MG definitely wasn't going to be effective, flamer was really the best thing I had, and I only diverted to it after his first attack that my towers+trucks fought off, as a stopgap measure, because I knew it would be a while before lancer, flamer researches pretty darn fast.

It may have not been such a bad(for him) "breakout" if he had turned and fled as soon as he opened up that hole in my MG tower line, because when that hole opened, my flamers came out (I think I waited until it was 2 tiles wide), he was still trying to advance..... he should have been trying to pick off as many as he could at range.

The med-cannon hovers had the same range as my HMGs HfTx attacking his base, so they didn't stand much chance of being able to destroy my attacking force.
My flamers again showed some use, when his lancer hovers came out, I think I got one as it came out of the factory heading for the water, another was on the water, facing his base (where my attacking HfTx were), and I don't think he saw the flamer hovers coming from behind from my base across the water to get him
- until then, I hadn't deployed any hovers in combat, and I never know how often he checks the player screen, he may not have known I had hover, as his earlier cannon attack I chose not to respond to.... well I may have send one flamer after his cannons, before deciding not to respond by defending, but rather by attacking, that flamer my have died when his attention was elsewhere, I dunno.
Maybe he couldn't multitask and see my flamer coming even though he knew I had hovers, maybe he thought I had given up on hovers after a pathetic 1 hover flamer response to his attack, followed by a large HMG HT attack on his base, but I got one of the only lancer hovers he built with my flamer hovers.
Lancer usually beats flamer on vehicles with the same speed, provided you keep the distance

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Well its been awhile since I played, and I dont know if the tech tree times have been changed in anyways, but Lancers should only take about 10 mins if you have a good amount of power and your running at lest 2 or 3 research factorys. Also back in the demo days Flamers were used alot, but I still think Twin MG's were better because they had better range.

What maps are mostly played these days in multiplayer games ?


4nE

[Dylan Hsu]

everybody freakin loves ntw and such, but play what you like to play

[3drts]

http://guide.wz2100.net/r/lanceratrocket

I think Lancers were moved down the tech tree somewhat, and I had unfortunately made too many diversions from just teching right along a weapon research path.

NTW is a map right, New Team War?
It it is the map I am thinking of....
Personally I don't like high oil, flat terrain maps - by high oil I mean you have all the oil you need right at your base, and people just turtle and tech up, until they get ripples or archangels, then spam artillery if they can get it before the oponent....

Not much of a fan of squared either---- spammage of HMGs or lancers

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Well I did 2 games last night on Rush no bases game 1 was me vs 3 AI's less then an hour to take them all out, and sadly I was a bit lost on the tech tree for a bit, the biggest problem I had was the cyborgs the AI's made and the flamers, killing borgs with lancers are not a good idea and had to make a mix of HMG, Lancers, and Bunker Busters to take the AI's out.

As for the 2nd game 1 vs 1 and I was basically just using trucks to toy with the AI while I went thru the tech tree, once again they made a crap load of borgs that did some damage, but never really got near my base. The did have VTOL's up but never really had a problem with them had AA long before the AI had them up.

As for New Team Wars, ya I recall the map, played many of games on that and Team Wars it was fun for awhile, but it got old to, for a T1 no base game you got to see what the game could do with tech and never worry about power, but nothing to fight over. One game I had on TW I took 4 trucks down to the other side of the map in the far corner opposite of the persons base I was playing and put up 4 factorys as he started to turtle, sadly he never looked over there and I built a crap load of tanks and ran over him, but he did have a nice wall of nasty stuff just I was on the inside of it.

Anyways over all Flamer Borgs seem very powerful vs Hovers and Half-tracks, they had some other things mixed in, but them Flamers did the most damage, have to look at that more, before I bitch about it Also I took note that only 2 or 3 maps were added to the game, I find that sad in the past 10 years thats all we got, and thats got to change, who in the hell is making maps these days ? Also where are the add on maps at, I take it I cant use my old maps for this game anymore ?


4nE

[3drts]

I don't know what version you played, but flamers are much more powerful than they were in 1.00-1.10, the most powerful starting weapon I'd say, if you can get within range....
HMGs are a good counter to flamer borgs, just always retreat when encountering them, and don't use a tank that is too slow (NP bodies are good, they are faster, and have higher thermal armor= best to use against flamers)

http://guide.wz2100.net/w/#weapontable

Note: flamers do 3x damage against bunkers, but 0.1x damage vs hardpoints, walls, etc....
HMG hardpoints will slaughter flamer borgs, and Lancer hardpoints will slaughter flamer tanks.
Minipod towers, being classed as "medium" take 60% damage from flamers, and since mini-pods are classed as anti-tank, they do 1.3x against wheeled vehicles, or 1.25x against half tracks, they would probably do vs early light body flamer tanks.
Lancers vs borgs is a really bad idea, AT weapons only do 0.3x damage vs borgs....
Cannons and gauss do 0.6x damage, and are merely "ok"
Its the machineguns and lasers you want to use vs borgs, 1.4x damage...
Flamers are also good vs flamer borgs: 1.3x damage
A tracked flamer tank will take 0.9x damage from the cyborgs, but do 1.3x damage too them,
But I'm not sure that can overcome the cheapness of the cyborgs, or the fact they can bunch up in a small space, so 10 of them fire at your tanks, but only 2-3 of your flamer tanks can fire back (although bunching up also makes them more vulnerable to splash, and makes more of them get the secondary "burn" damage)
A cheap and easy early flamer borg defense: walls (for the 0.1x damage benefit), with MG towers behind them (for the 1.4x damage to enemy borgs), mini pods behind walls would do for tanks until you get lancer hardpoints.

[RBL-4NiK8r]

I don't know what version you played

Hahahaha Well lets see I was around when the first BETA of WZ came out on Mplayer, got the game the day it went retail, and went thru all the patches as they came out, joined NEWST after 1.10 patch and became Lead Beta Tester, and Map Maker, then helped form up Pumpkin2, and made a few mods, so ya I think I played just about everything there was out there over the years. Also was Leader of RBL the best T1-T3 clan that was out there at the time fear us everyone did. Oh and I was the one who started the Petition that helped make this game open to everyone to play with, but it came to late in my journey with the game to really bother with it after that, because I wanted to play other games not work on them all the time.


OK someone get me a pin.........................

4nE

[Buginator]

Hahahaha Well lets see I was around when the first BETA of WZ came out on Mplayer, got the game the day it went retail, and went thru all the patches as they came out, joined NEWST after 1.10 patch and became Lead Beta Tester, and Map Maker, then helped form up Pumpkin2, and made a few mods, so ya I think I played just about everything there was out there over the years. Also was Leader of RBL the best T1-T3 clan that was out there at the time fear us everyone did. Oh and I was the one who started the Petition that helped make this game open to everyone to play with, but it came to late in my journey with the game to really bother with it after that, because I wanted to play other games not work on them all the time.


OK someone get me a pin.........................

4nE

Hey 4nE, did you forget about this? viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1331#p12420
We have been waiting a really long time to get new (good) maps into the game...

I have noticed some other RBL members pop in as well.
RBL-VipeR, and some other ones.

Also, really need to get a license for your maps, public domain (like Niker did with his AI) or one of these: GPL 2 / CC BY 3.0 / CC BY-SA 3.0 / CC0 ...

[3drts]

Also back in the demo days Flamers were used alot, but I still think Twin MG's were better because they had better range.

I remember the demo days, of course I didn't have internet back then, I too got the game the year it came out, I wasn't a beta tester.
In the demo (the version I had was a single player 2 mission demo, with only Light cannon, Flamer, Machine gun, mortar, repair turret, truck, sensor turret, viper, wheels, half tracks, tracks - 7 weapons, 3 propulsions : 21 total possible designs) I used flamers, just because they looked cool, and they were the 1st new weapon you got.
By 1.00, they sucked..... I don't recall how they performed in the demo I played.
In 1.00, when I got Twin MG (and thought, twin weapons, AWESOME - knowing nothing of the tech tree), I permanently put away the flamers.

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Hahahaha Well lets see I was around when the first BETA of WZ came out on Mplayer, got the game the day it went retail, and went thru all the patches as they came out, joined NEWST after 1.10 patch and became Lead Beta Tester, and Map Maker, then helped form up Pumpkin2, and made a few mods, so ya I think I played just about everything there was out there over the years. Also was Leader of RBL the best T1-T3 clan that was out there at the time fear us everyone did. Oh and I was the one who started the Petition that helped make this game open to everyone to play with, but it came to late in my journey with the game to really bother with it after that, because I wanted to play other games not work on them all the time.


OK someone get me a pin.........................

4nE

Hey 4nE, did you forget about this? viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1331#p12420
We have been waiting a really long time to get new (good) maps into the game...

I have noticed some other RBL members pop in as well.
RBL-VipeR, and some other ones.

Also, really need to get a license for your maps, public domain (like Niker did with his AI) or one of these: GPL 2 / CC BY 3.0 / CC BY-SA 3.0 / CC0 ...

Well I guess this is good as a place to answer that, and tho I have been around else where, I have been busy, got my divorce finalized last year and remarried in Sept, and I really dont get the time to work like I used to, I also went thru a lot of crap to get my son back from the state over the past 2 years, plus I got to dig thru a box of CD's to see if I even have anything left from my WZ days, no longer have my PC I used back then. Anyways I already PMed lav_coyote25 the other day, and am working on getting the map editor up and running, but my wife was on HER laptop for 10 hours today doing a 30 page report for her class thats do monday,(she is working on her Masters) an I spent the day dealing with 3 fking feet of snow, and thanks to the damn GROUNDHOG we got 6 more weeks of winter. So I got a few days of reading to do in here to catch up on things, and hope I got all my dll's now, an we will see if I can crank out a few maps before spring, because once it warms up I most likely will be gone, but till then I will get some stuff done.

Also I told troman along time ago, that use could put in what maps you wanted into any patch or update of the game, I have no clue what your talking about as for license for my maps WTF they are just maps.

As for other RBL's well there were alot of us at one time, and we were the best when it came to multiplayer I know I trained most of them back when we were WZW, oh and there is a long story there if you ever want to know the history behind RBL hahahaha...............................

Oh and Viper was good back in the day, and well somethings you just dont forget or do we............


4nE

[Zarel]

Also I told troman along time ago, that use could put in what maps you wanted into any patch or update of the game, I have no clue what your talking about as for license for my maps WTF they are just maps.

The problem is that permission to use your maps in the game is not enough... there are a whole bunch of copyright laws involved in what we want to do, but the gist of it is that if you don't care about copyright, you should say something like:

"I hereby declare maps I release here to be licensed under the CC-0 license."

You can also use the Map Submitter, currently [tentatively] here: http://guide.wz2100.net/addons/?p=submit

[RBL-4NiK8r]

Also I told troman along time ago, that use could put in what maps you wanted into any patch or update of the game, I have no clue what your talking about as for license for my maps WTF they are just maps.

The problem is that permission to use your maps in the game is not enough... there are a whole bunch of copyright laws involved in what we want to do, but the gist of it is that if you don't care about copyright, you should say something like:

"I hereby declare maps I release here to be licensed under the CC-0 license."

You can also use the Map Submitter, currently [tentatively] here: http://guide.wz2100.net/addons/?p=submit

Blah I was ok with this till I read this part

Do I have to attribute the person who applied CC0 to their work?

No, there is no legal requirement that you attribute the affirmer, only an expectation that you will voluntarily do so if requested.

So basically thats saying someone could take my map add a tree or some other crap and say they made it, what a load of crap.......................... I had that sh*t happen before when Pumpkin was still around some A**hole took one of my maps and sent it to Pumpkin for them to host on there site soon after the map editor came out.


Anyways so whats the next basic copy rights thing I can use that gives someone the abilitity to use it, but not steal it, not that I think anyone here would steal my work, but I think you know what I mean.


4nE

[Zarel]

Anyways so whats the next basic copy rights thing I can use that gives someone the abilitity to use it, but not steal it, not that I think anyone here would steal my work, but I think you know what I mean.

Yes, that would be CC-BY-3.0+/GPLv2+.

Like I said, you can also use the map uploader: http://guide.wz2100.net/addons/?p=submit

It'll tell you what the licenses mean.

[crux]

So basically thats saying someone could take my map add a tree or some other crap and say they made it, what a load of crap.......................... I had that sh*t happen before when Pumpkin was still around some A**hole took one of my maps and sent it to Pumpkin for them to host on there site soon after the map editor came out.


Anyways so whats the next basic copy rights thing I can use that gives someone the abilitity to use it, but not steal it, not that I think anyone here would steal my work, but I think you know what I mean.


4nE

there is a map decompiler already so doing what you said is possible, and I don't think a license will stop anyone from doing whatever they want anyway.
Zarel put this up http://guide.wz2100.net/addons/ so if you want to take credit for your maps then that is the place they should be uploaded so everyone knows that you made the maps.