Get rid of artillery shooting straight up?

[chron]

Fuckin' aye to that.

Plus in warzone, you can never get your damn artillery to retreat to any kind of safety because they have to be forced to be linked to a "sensor". That's a stupid ass problem on its own but this proposal of removing their close in attack would just dump gasoline on the issue. Now your mobile artillery is somehow even more totally pointless.

100% agree.
There is no real reason to change the current behavior. It is artillery, not a rifle, so don't nerf them.

[Zarel]

Those are arbitrary restrictions on an otherwise unified interface, removing them is a objective way to improve Warzone 2100.

/shrug/ It's as much as I can do. You want them removed, write code to remove them yourself. This is as much as I can do.

Ye gods, you try to improve Warzone a little, and people act like you're not doing enough.

100% agree.
There is no real reason to change the current behavior. It is artillery, not a rifle, so don't nerf them.

It's hardly nerfing. It's making them stronger, in most cases. Would you rather I had artillery structures shoot straight up, too? At least then it'd be consistent.

You know, shooting straight up really is pointless - it actually damages you (with the splash damage), while being fairly unlikely to damage what you were actually trying to hit. The old projectile code gave you a good chance of hitting them. The current code gives you effectively zero. And artillery weapons do 10x or more splash damage than they used to, so shooting straight up can hurt yourself quite a bit.

[TVR]

... Ye gods, you try to improve Warzone a little, and people act like you're not doing enough. ...

A bug left untouched long enough becomes a feature; these examples are listed so someone doesn't incorporate them into a religious mantra.

... You know, shooting straight up really is pointless ...

It's not 90°, but rather >45°, that has plenty of uses.

[Zarel]

A bug left untouched long enough becomes a feature; these examples are listed so someone doesn't incorporate them into a religious mantra.

Erm, I was talking about the structure thing. I can only easily make it possible to control one structure at a time; so now you seem to be complaining that you can't control all structures.

It's not 90°, but rather >45°, that has plenty of uses.

This poll is only about 85-90° shots. You'll still be able to make other >45° shots just fine.

You know, people have reported artillery shooting straight up as a bug. That's a pretty big warning sign right there.

[sautedman]

I am fine with making the minimum range actually mean something. But there is a point in that it is so painful to watch helpless tanks get gunned down. Why, I remember the time in the campaign when due to an error (naturally no fault of my own), a close-weapon tank was feasting on some of my artillery tanks that had been stranded. Can we at least make it so that the artillery tanks either try to move out of range/try to put the opposing tank back in range?

[KenAlcock]

I am fine with making the minimum range actually mean something. But there is a point in that it is so painful to watch helpless tanks get gunned down. Why, I remember the time in the campaign when due to an error (naturally no fault of my own), a close-weapon tank was feasting on some of my artillery tanks that had been stranded. Can we at least make it so that the artillery tanks either try to move out of range/try to put the opposing tank back in range?

LMAO, I would be happy if the damned things didn't charge into battle when they are not assigned to a sensor or their assigned sensor gets whacked.

[Zarel]

I am fine with making the minimum range actually mean something. But there is a point in that it is so painful to watch helpless tanks get gunned down. Why, I remember the time in the campaign when due to an error (naturally no fault of my own), a close-weapon tank was feasting on some of my artillery tanks that had been stranded. Can we at least make it so that the artillery tanks either try to move out of range/try to put the opposing tank back in range?

Yes, I will implement this change.

LMAO, I would be happy if the damned things didn't charge into battle when they are not assigned to a sensor or their assigned sensor gets whacked.

...they do that? I'm pretty sure they usually just stay put.

[KenAlcock]

...they do that? I'm pretty sure they usually just stay put.

Oh they do that alright. Talk about herding cats. Mobile Artillery without an assigned sensor think they are tanks. And Mobile sensors also think they are tanks. I haven't used mobile artillery in a while but next game I play I will and try to stage something for you.

[Tenoh]

Dont get me started on mobile sensors >_> if this things sniff enemy artillery they charge right in and die and dont respond to my commands to return.I really get frustrated over that so i abuse the game by puting 4 walls around them.Then i can nuke all ai on the map with out needing tanks.

[TVR]

... now you seem to be complaining that you can't control all structures. ...

Controlling a single structure solves only a portion of the underlying issue, but it certainly is progress in the right direction.

... This poll is only about 85-90° shots. ...

The true question is whether a high-angle Howitzer would be able to elevate to 85+ degrees.

Let the player do so if it can, these kinds of effective-by-design gameplay elements are what separate exceptional games from the rest.

[lav_coyote25]

Dont get me started on mobile sensors >_> if this things sniff enemy artillery they charge right in and die and dont respond to my commands to return.I really get frustrated over that so i abuse the game by puting 4 walls around them.Then i can nuke all ai on the map with out needing tanks.

good!! now i know i am not the only one that does that. welcome to the club. xD

[Michal]

Damn, my 'super sensor tower' idea is already in use

Back to to the main topic: hovitzers shouldn't be able to fire straight up. Because... The current hovitzer/emplacement model wouldn't provide any space for barrel recoil when shooting straight up. And its silly to aim at yourself.

My point of view is that the artillery should be hopeless agains tanks in close range. That would force players to make some defences around them, and protect them, just as you do on a real battlefield. You don't rush in with your artillery, its support weapon.
So, maybe disable shooting straight up, and tweak minimum range of some weapons?

[Samowar]

On behalf of "Artillery shooting straight up", the Mini-Rocket Artillery sometimes shows an interesting behavior: They fire some of their rockets straight at the target and some in a high arc (although these still come down somewhere around the target, so it's not exactly "straight up"). Looks like this. Might be offtopic, but I didn't know where else to put it.

@Topic: Yes, Artillery should be completely helpless when cornered. It's no different in reality. On the other hand, perhaps minimum ranges for artillery could be lowered a bit; at least for the mortar. If we assume the minimum angle for a mortar to be 45° (where it reaches its maximum range of 18), a maximum angle of 85° means a minimum range of ~3 (80° makes ~6). Perhaps it could be set to 4 or 5, so it doesn't hit itself by splash damage but still is able to defend against cannons and the like. Of course, accuracy would be down; a mortar is no short-range weapon after all.