Skirmish mode : why I never user ground units or VTOLs

[pmat]

Hi all,

Here is a post to simply explain why I hate using ground units or VTOLs in skirmish mode. I never tried multi so maybe it's different.

1. VTOL regularly destroy themselves when bombing high building (fortress, control center, etc.) They get hit by their own bombs. It happens more often when sending 10 units or more on one building. Bug or feature ?

2. Ground units get stuck on doors, walls, other units retiring for repair, etc. Pathfinding is really really annoying.

3. I think tracks are really really too slow. Even if they've got a lot of hit points they are quite dead when getting into fire range because of artillery or long range missiles. And I even talk about cyborgs.

4. Trucks get stuck between buildings when ordering them to build little buildings like artillery, hardpoints, etc.

So it seems cheaper to build artillery and sensors to destroy enemy bases, instead of sending ground units to death.

I know that developing a game isn't easy, takes time and that there are a lot of problems to solve, but all those points are about gameplay and without a good gameplay I think it's less important to develop new features.

So please, improve the pathfinding Keep doing good job !

Sorry for my poor english...

[Olrox]

I've managed to avoid many of these problems by carefully planning pasages across my bases, the delivery points and wall openings. With some engine upgrades and favorable bodies (Mantis or Python, and Vengeance when I manage to get my hands on enough power and technology), tracks are less of a nuisance, but I don't send them across the map. I usually make VTOL and Cyborg factories at my bases, and regular factories at strategical points like the middle of the map. This way, my units don't have to drive too far away to attack. As for Tiger body, I only use it with half-tracks. And still, I prefer Mantis or Python because they are faster to produce, or Vengeance later on because the cost/benefit is a good deal.

But I never got the same problem as you did when using VTOLs o.O
Seems really weird, are you sure about it?

[pmat]

Well when you send 20 VTOLs to destroy a building, when there are no AA defense and you see all yours units loosing 3/4 of their hitpoints when launching their bomb...

[Olrox]

really weird. There aren't any Machineguns or minipods also, right?

[Zarel]

Hmm. I'll see if I can fix the VTOL problem.

[Mysteryem]

Hmm. I'll see if I can fix the VTOL problem.

Couldn't that be done by only making splash damage go sideways? I've also destroyed my own VTOLs with my artillery before. (also got a lucky shot on an AI's VTOL once)

[stiv]

I never use units of any kind. I just sit in my base quietly researching and reading poetry while waiting for the inevitable end. It is all very Kafkaesque.

[Olrox]

I never use units of any kind. I just sit in my base quietly researching and reading poetry while waiting for the inevitable end. It is all very Kafkaesque.

& depressing, if it's just like you've stated

[Zarel]

Couldn't that be done by only making splash damage go sideways?

Yes, that was my planned fix.

[javierkaiser]

But I never got the same problem as you did when using VTOLs o.O
Seems really weird, are you sure about it?

Try bombing something built on the base walls of little Egypt

[Zarel]

Couldn't that be done by only making splash damage go sideways? I've also destroyed my own VTOLs with my artillery before. (also got a lucky shot on an AI's VTOL once)

Fixed in r8406/r8407

[pmat]

Thanks for the fix, I'll try it soon. (Edit : Tested and Approved )

What about pathfinding and units that stick to walls and buildings or units colliding ?

Probably pathfinding is one of the hardest things to develop/correct, but I think it would be really a good improvement in-game.

[Vermithrax]

Hi all,

Here is a post to simply explain why I hate using ground units or VTOLs in skirmish mode. I never tried multi so maybe it's different.

1. VTOL regularly destroy themselves when bombing high building (fortress, control center, etc.) They get hit by their own bombs. It happens more often when sending 10 units or more on one building. Bug or feature ?

Never seen that problem. Personally I think bombers should fly higher, but that's just me.

So it seems cheaper to build artillery and sensors to destroy enemy bases, instead of sending ground units to death.

Totally agree. Plus it's fun to play with the AI. Trunk code seems to be improving lately. VTOL attacks are immediately responded to by emplacing AA buildings. I wish the AI would make better use of artillery.

So please, improve the pathfinding Keep doing good job !

The team is doing an excellent job of keeping a 10 year old game going. But I agree about the pathfinding.

[pmat]

I found a simple use case where track units get stuck in a narrow passage.

Simply order them twice to go to the same location. If you look at your units, they will make a 360° turn and continue their way. (I don't know if EVERY unit will do that). While they are turning other units will collide, resulting in a wonderful traffic jam.

[Olrox]

I found a simple use case where track units get stuck in a narrow passage.

Simply order them twice to go to the same location. If you look at your units, they will make a 360° turn and continue their way. (I don't know if EVERY unit will do that). While they are turning other units will collide, resulting in a wonderful traffic jam.

If you tell somebody "get in the car", and after they are sitting down, you say again "get in the car", they'll be confused, also xD

I'd say, just tell your units to go a single time.