Making balance mod
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
oh crap I forgot to add that file to the editor... hmmm... thanks a lot for the debug and all that... appreciate it a lot.
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
by the way I've seen that in a lot of files i.e. prresearch.txt they have a number at the end....
research, research, number
whats that number for, any ideas? I've seen that most of the times is the same number across the same research topic, so in resultstructure.txt has the same number as prresearch.txt for the same research an all that but its not always like that.
Any ideas?
research, research, number
whats that number for, any ideas? I've seen that most of the times is the same number across the same research topic, so in resultstructure.txt has the same number as prresearch.txt for the same research an all that but its not always like that.
Any ideas?
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milo christiansen
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Re: Making balance mod
I want to know that too for the text editor .editdef file sets.
In general, if you see glowing, pulsating things in the game, you should click on them.
- Demigod Game Ganual
- Demigod Game Ganual
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
awesome now my editor works perfectly I was getting scared that it would screw up something up, but no!!.-
Zarel
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Re: Making balance mod
They're usually dummy numbers. They were used in the past, but are no longer used for anything. They can be whatever number you want. You can use your own number for all the things you add, so when we see that number, we can be like "Oh, that's who added that!"winsrp wrote:by the way I've seen that in a lot of files i.e. prresearch.txt they have a number at the end....
research, research, number
whats that number for, any ideas? I've seen that most of the times is the same number across the same research topic, so in resultstructure.txt has the same number as prresearch.txt for the same research an all that but its not always like that.
Any ideas?
(Don't choose 1337, that's my number.)
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
cool... so it has become a modder ID... 
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
So I have been making some tables in order to start heavy in my mod changes, and here is one of the tables,
I'm having 5 damage categories
Soft: ~500 top damage
Med ~1000 top damage
Hard ~1500 top damage
Super ~2000 top damage
ultra ~2500 top damage
Here is one of the soft schematics I'm doing. All damages / resistances / researches / etc etc will be changed in order to provide a balance.
With the weapon modifiers, what can be soft for tanks, can become hard or even super for some other types of units... and so on... stay tuned for more updates.
I'm having 5 damage categories
Soft: ~500 top damage
Med ~1000 top damage
Hard ~1500 top damage
Super ~2000 top damage
ultra ~2500 top damage
Here is one of the soft schematics I'm doing. All damages / resistances / researches / etc etc will be changed in order to provide a balance.
With the weapon modifiers, what can be soft for tanks, can become hard or even super for some other types of units... and so on... stay tuned for more updates.
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Zarel
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Re: Making balance mod
You forgot accuracy. Also armor. Also price (a weapon that does 2x the damage is useless if it costs 4x as much). Also range, which is very valuable. Also splash, upgrade effects that vary depending on salvo speed, burn, turret HP, turret weight, multipliers...
Furthermore, the research upgrades are probably the most unbalanced part of Warzone, especially since they mess up the price:damage ratio that stronger weapons tend to be balanced for. Adding more of them is just bad form...
For instance, in your current balance table, your Heavy Machinegun would do two to three times as much damage per second as your Assault Gun would do, by the time you researched it. When you understand why that is, you might understand a bit more about how Warzone is balanced.
I can't help but think you are going entirely the wrong way with your balancing. Spreadsheets may work for an MMORPG, where each player only controls one unit. But in an RTS, there's a lot of RPS balancing. Things have hard counters. And they don't need to be precisely identical in total power. Consider the game of Rock-Paper-Scissors-Fire-Water. It's like Rock Paper Scissors, but Fire beats any of RPS, any of RPS beats Water, and Water beats Fire. So Water only beats 1 thing, but Fire beats 3 things. Does that make Water weaker than Fire? Yes. Does that mean the game isn't balanced? No.
Furthermore, the research upgrades are probably the most unbalanced part of Warzone, especially since they mess up the price:damage ratio that stronger weapons tend to be balanced for. Adding more of them is just bad form...
For instance, in your current balance table, your Heavy Machinegun would do two to three times as much damage per second as your Assault Gun would do, by the time you researched it. When you understand why that is, you might understand a bit more about how Warzone is balanced.
I can't help but think you are going entirely the wrong way with your balancing. Spreadsheets may work for an MMORPG, where each player only controls one unit. But in an RTS, there's a lot of RPS balancing. Things have hard counters. And they don't need to be precisely identical in total power. Consider the game of Rock-Paper-Scissors-Fire-Water. It's like Rock Paper Scissors, but Fire beats any of RPS, any of RPS beats Water, and Water beats Fire. So Water only beats 1 thing, but Fire beats 3 things. Does that make Water weaker than Fire? Yes. Does that mean the game isn't balanced? No.
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
Oh thats just 1 of the tables, jejeje... I have like 10 of those for each thing, and a couple programatic tables to sum it all up, and since im re-doing the hole researches order an such, then by the time you get Assault gun, you will only do half damage with heavy machine gun...
I also have tables and all for bodies, propulsion and such... just wait and see... you might end up liking it, who knows.
I also have tables and all for bodies, propulsion and such... just wait and see... you might end up liking it, who knows.
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
by the way I don't play MMOs... I don't like those...
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milo christiansen
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Re: Making balance mod
Just an idea: Can you add those tables to your editor?
In general, if you see glowing, pulsating things in the game, you should click on them.
- Demigod Game Ganual
- Demigod Game Ganual
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
hmmm... even when i do can add tables and graphs to the editor, I don't see why should I, since those tables not only represent the damage values, but also represent the timeline of the showing of the researches...
How would you add them?
How would you add them?
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
ok, before doing the big changes to the research tree, I have started to balance weapons and re arrange some upgrades in a more consistent manner.
Still lot of changes are missing in here, this is like an alpha v.000001 of what I want.
So far I have
-tweaked some machine guns weapons values
-modified some vtol-bomb values
-removed the mini-pod hitting air (its just a poor way to compensate for bad AA guns that i never liked)
-modified AA damage and values, now they cost a more, but do more damage, so a few of these should keep you safe on a relatively small amount of aircrafts.
-modified the research tree, so that all the cb/vtol sensors are in the right research order
-modified the research tree so that the power upgrades are more consistent, now the rule is that you need 1 research module and 1 engine to get a new power upgrade. and you dont need to wait until research upgrade like 7 to get the power module #2... just didn't make sense
- also on the power modules i have make them a little less giving in terms of percentage increase, but I have added 2 more modules, that at the end, you end up with a little more money percentage, but just a little.
- modified research tree so that EMP now comes when you research advanced engineering
- EMP now hits air, and has a different modus operandi, takes longer to charge, but has a big range so every hit really counts.
-Modified sensors range, so normal sensors have bigger range and the wide spectrum sensor has lower range due to the multi radar nature of it, making specialized radars more effective.
-make the lassat have more boom to it... and wider range, not huge, just wide.... it does not kills everything it touches, but its scary, instead of just annoying.
-Modified some ranges and weapons radius here and there... (still need to work on radius, since i noticed some UPS here and there.)
-Modified the vtol bombs, so they feel effective (if they make it through) , maybe I went a little off with the plasmite bomb but you tell me.
-modified all arty weapons, on range, speed, damage, etc etc...
Creative, and constructive comments are more than welcome, to whine about how you don't like it go somewhere else.
Still lot of changes are missing in here, this is like an alpha v.000001 of what I want.
So far I have
-tweaked some machine guns weapons values
-modified some vtol-bomb values
-removed the mini-pod hitting air (its just a poor way to compensate for bad AA guns that i never liked)
-modified AA damage and values, now they cost a more, but do more damage, so a few of these should keep you safe on a relatively small amount of aircrafts.
-modified the research tree, so that all the cb/vtol sensors are in the right research order
-modified the research tree so that the power upgrades are more consistent, now the rule is that you need 1 research module and 1 engine to get a new power upgrade. and you dont need to wait until research upgrade like 7 to get the power module #2... just didn't make sense
- also on the power modules i have make them a little less giving in terms of percentage increase, but I have added 2 more modules, that at the end, you end up with a little more money percentage, but just a little.
- modified research tree so that EMP now comes when you research advanced engineering
- EMP now hits air, and has a different modus operandi, takes longer to charge, but has a big range so every hit really counts.
-Modified sensors range, so normal sensors have bigger range and the wide spectrum sensor has lower range due to the multi radar nature of it, making specialized radars more effective.
-make the lassat have more boom to it... and wider range, not huge, just wide.... it does not kills everything it touches, but its scary, instead of just annoying.
-Modified some ranges and weapons radius here and there... (still need to work on radius, since i noticed some UPS here and there.)
-Modified the vtol bombs, so they feel effective (if they make it through) , maybe I went a little off with the plasmite bomb but you tell me.
-modified all arty weapons, on range, speed, damage, etc etc...
Creative, and constructive comments are more than welcome, to whine about how you don't like it go somewhere else.
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milo christiansen
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Re: Making balance mod
I didn't mean those tables exactly, but tables to help show balence wold be very nice.
In general, if you see glowing, pulsating things in the game, you should click on them.
- Demigod Game Ganual
- Demigod Game Ganual
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winsrp
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Re: Making balance mod
oh... ... I'll see what I can do.
... I'll see what I can do.