Leg Propulsion - A new approach.

[Zarel]

Is that joking sarcasm or are you serious?

If the latter, I'm enthralled.

I'm serious. Not that I'm going to implement it just yet, we still need graphics, and coding, and all that.

[XANAX]

Like I said, I'm aiming for a more insect/splayed leg design, as in my diagram, not upright. That would not be good at scaling cliffs.

Sadly I can't texture nor model...perhaps you could give my design a go? Flesh them out a bit but keep the shape/posture of the legs the same as my diagram. Maybe supports in between the legs and body. We can experiment with this.

I was going to work on it anyway xD
but I was making it a New paradigm only mech/s, giving them a advantage being able to scale cliffs,.. with all weight classes

Also anything more than 4 legs for light/medium bodies I'd think would be excessive.

I agree

[Kacen]

Such widespread legs are not very useful, imho. Not only do they make the machine bulky, but they are unnecessarily heavy and offer poor load support. In the given configuration, with the hips set into the sides of the vehicle, the vertical draft of the body will be carried by horizontal joints, what is never a good idea. If this was to be stable, the hips would either have to be under the body, like with spiders, this would preserve the widespread legs. Or the legs have to be less protruding, like the harvester mentioned above. This would make for a more insectoid look and give the vehicle better maneuverability in confined spaces. The third option would be a centipede design with hips under the body and legs spreading out, though not very far, by a reverse 90° knee. But this is a primitive design that only works because the centipede distributes its weight on up to 750 legs. Clearly not what we are going for.
A walking machine will always end up with resembling one arthropod or another, simply because they have, for millions of years, tried just about any possible solution for walking on exoskeleton legs and came to the functional designs. Albeit this being unavoidable, I second the view that it should not posses any design features that only exist to make it more "biomorph".

Ah, but you see, for the purpose of climbing and all-terrain, the splayed legged design is practical.

Compare, say, this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mountain ... _Transport

To this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terr ... _Transport

The former is designed with all-terrain hill/mountain scaling in mind, the latter, no. Would never work. The former emulates my idea for legs and their purpose perfectly. (Not 100% cosmetically though.)

Point is, more sturdy straight mech-like legs, like XANAX's first example, would not be efficient at climbing, in fact they would perform even worse than a wheeled/tracked vehicle, instantly falling over.

Though perhaps my design could be revamped, with the legs coming from the bottom of the chassis like you suggested.

But yeah, this design is purpose-built for cliff scaling, and that would be it's only major advantage, thus a splayed design is needed and the only design practical for such purposes. Any other design, while perhaps being easier to support, would not give it the ability to perform it's main purpose.

[Kacen]

I'm serious. Not that I'm going to implement it just yet, we still need graphics, and coding, and all that.

Gasp...

This is a shining light in my life, seriously.

Excited as all hell now.

[Corporal Punishment]

Er, no. I do not advocate legs of the AT-AT type, you misunderstood me there. When I speak of more downright legs I specifically have something like this in mind. The AT-AT could possibly never have worked, I agree on that.
Anyway. I came to think about four-legged design versus six-legged design after my last post. A bit of digging brought up the following: Arthropodes did not evolve less-than-six-legged designs because this would not be stable with their movement pattern. They need to stand on at least three feet at any given moment in order not to tumble over. Vertebrates can move on four (or even two) legs because they are able to set their feet below their center of gravity, something arthropodes can not do with their splayed legs. While it is possible to animate a four-legged walking pattern with splayed legs, it would alway look odd. Either the machine would stand balancing on one hind leg and the opposite foreleg while setting its other two legs forward or it would move one leg after the other, resulting in a stuttering movement. A more pleasing experience would be six legs, with the left foreleg, left hind leg and right middle leg moving simultaneously while the vehicle stands on its right foreleg, right hind leg and left middle leg and vice versa. For better weight distribution, heavy bodies could have eight legs moving like spiders. But I didn't figure out their movement pattern jet.

[Per]

...

Hey, this is not a DARPA project. If it looks believable under the usual suspension of disbelief involved with playing almost any game, it is fine. Science is what you can use to give an in-game rationale for what you have already decided to do, and if that fails, techno-babble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technobabble) will do the job.

[Kacen]

Hey, this is not a DARPA project. If it looks believable under the usual suspension of disbelief involved with playing almost any game, it is fine. Science is what you can use to give an in-game rationale for what you have already decided to do, and if that fails, techno-babble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technobabble) will do the job.

Yes, exactly

My own design would look fine in game.

[Deus Siddis]

A bit of digging brought up the following: Arthropodes did not evolve less-than-six-legged designs because this would not be stable with their movement pattern. They need to stand on at least three feet at any given moment in order not to tumble over. Vertebrates can move on four (or even two) legs because they are able to set their feet below their center of gravity, something arthropodes can not do with their splayed legs.

This is a pre-ownage warning. Prepare to be owned on the internet in. . . 5. 4. 3. 2. 1.

"Actually, you forgot Mantis."

Ownage complete, have a nice day.

[whippersnapper]

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Hey, this is not a DARPA project. If it looks believable under the usual suspension of disbelief involved with playing almost any game, it is fine. Science is what you can use to give an in-game rationale for what you have already decided to do, and if that fails, techno-babble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technobabble) will do the job.

Indeed. It is at least a 3000 year-long effective story telling tradition for achieving the immersive, holy-grail artistry known as "the willing suspension of disbelief" (a phrase coined and explicated by the great 18th century English visionary poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge - creator of "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" & the opium 'inspired' masterpiece "Kubla Khan") and most recently dubbed by various trope names or neologisms such as...

Arthur C. Clarke's "Third Law", David Langford's corollary to A.C.C.'s "Third Law" and David Greenwalt's "Applied Phlebotinum"... and so on...

And you can also take RL D.A.R.P.A. work, for example, and conjure from it thru the alchemical crucible of "Applied Phlebotinum" whatever you will to suit the ends of your artistic vision, dramatic fictional construct or game world entertainments.

And BTW - surely I am not the only one in the neighborhood who has read H.G. Wells 1898 Sci Classic novel "War of the Worlds", seen all the movies based on the novel and absorbed their art design .... not to mention the TV series from the 1980s plus Jeff Wayne's Musical Version and computer game of 1998?

On that last note here is a web site entirely dedicated to the visual art designs associated with "War of the Worlds" from 1898 - 2009 in ALL printed media:

The War of the Worlds art design over the last 100 years in book form..

Art design for WOTW associated with audio or video versions of the book, or documentaries about the book, both completed and unrealized.

I was tempted to get into the difference between evolution by natural selection fulfilling specialized ecological niches and the design of war machines but then thought that's not really the point when your focus is invoking the fun of interactive, artistically engaging, fictional game tropes.

Regards, whip
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[Kacen]

This is a pre-ownage warning. Prepare to be owned on the internet in. . . 5. 4. 3. 2. 1.

"Actually, you forgot Mantis."

Ownage complete, have a nice day.

That and both lizards and crocodiles...and hell all modern reptiles with legs have splayed legs.

In fact this is actually what, scientifically, separates dinosaurs from other reptiles; the fact that dinosaurs have upright postures as opposed to splayed postures. Such is why some prehistoric reptiles, such as Dimetrodon, are not considered dinosaurs.

[lav_coyote25]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNRtL8exd14 infancy of walking...toddler stage. xD

[Corporal Punishment]

@ Deus Siddis: This is a pre-ownage warning. Prepare to be owned in 5. 4. 3. 2. 1.

Mantis uses all six legs when walking/climbing, as can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbLvTdG-UnA&hl=de.

Ownage complete, have a nice day.

@ Kacen: Reptiles have something else Arthropodes do not possess. Namely, a tail. This serves to balance the animal. The BigDog robot in the video lav_coyote25 posted does exactly what I said before, sets two feet in line with its center of gravity plus balances by tilting its body. It apparently can do so as it has some equivalent of a flexible spinal column. Arthropodes with their rigid carapace or vehicles with armored bodies can never achieve this.

As a peace-offer:
I am completely aware that this is not a DARPA project. However, I thought the whole Idea of forums is discussion. I put forward my opinion and you state yours. That's just fine with me. No need for being offensive or bring up three legged machines that never looked convincing to me at all. If you can animate a convincing four-splayed-leg walk, so be it. The point is I remember these silly looking Dragoons form StarCraft and hope to never see something like it again.

[whippersnapper]

As a peace-offer:

I am completely aware that this is not a DARPA project. However, I thought the whole Idea of forums is discussion. I put forward my opinion and you state yours. That's just fine with me. No need for being offensive or bring up three legged machines that never looked convincing to me at all.

FIRST: You have entirely missed the point of the DARPA reference. Between Per's post and my follow-up that's quite an oversight I'll address briefly in the 3rd comment.

SECOND: Between your statement that I underlined and the one I bolded there is a blatant self-contradiction. 'Can't have your cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

THIRD: In the last 100 years those machines you have found unconvincing have entertained 100s of millions of peeps to the tune of billions of dollars in the 3 mediums of print, film and comp-vid gaming.

The point you completely missed with the DARPA refrence has all to do with "entertainment value" and you'll find me on the side of 100s of millions of peeps over your expressed stance.

Regards, whip

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[zeland]

Cyberbots! WooHoo! xD

[whippersnapper]

Cyberbots! WooHoo! xD

Yup... Full Metal Madness was a blast and let's remember this was in 1994 !

Lest we oversight - Super Cyclone Cyberbot was a pretty durn cool 4-legged engine of destruction though now that I look at it from a distance of some years there is something phallic about it in a Freudian sense I hadn't really noted before -



Regards, whip
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