ground penetrating projectiles
- psychopompos
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ground penetrating projectiles
wasnt this fixed?
im playing 221 now with the hardcore mod & vtol lancer rounds are traveling through walls, mg rounds are going through cliffs & tank killers are burrowing through whole hills...
im playing 221 now with the hardcore mod & vtol lancer rounds are traveling through walls, mg rounds are going through cliffs & tank killers are burrowing through whole hills...
Re: ground penetrating projectiles
I hear ya... I tried a new strat involving Vtol pads... I surrounded 'em with walls and a layer of AA cuz BecomePrey was killing my vtols, lancers went straight through the walls...
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- whippersnapper
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
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Yes. Can confirm it is still a problem with v.2.2.1 Makes me laugh so I'm not inclined to grumble much about it.
Regards, whip
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Yes. Can confirm it is still a problem with v.2.2.1 Makes me laugh so I'm not inclined to grumble much about it.
Regards, whip
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
Yeah, I just played a 2.2.1 skirmish match and noticed that too, and I'm also quite sure that this was fixed in earlier versions.
I had scourge hover tanks firing from the shore on the manhattan map at a power plant at the top of one of the mountains, and the missiles went right through the mountainside and emerged from the ground about one tile from the structure and destroyed it, I'm not sure, but I think they fired from a much longer distance than they did in earlier versions too, they could fire from one shore to the other (on the same map, on the places where the two opposing shores were closest to each other), while my mortars at roughly the same distance wouldn't fire.
I had scourge hover tanks firing from the shore on the manhattan map at a power plant at the top of one of the mountains, and the missiles went right through the mountainside and emerged from the ground about one tile from the structure and destroyed it, I'm not sure, but I think they fired from a much longer distance than they did in earlier versions too, they could fire from one shore to the other (on the same map, on the places where the two opposing shores were closest to each other), while my mortars at roughly the same distance wouldn't fire.
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- Greenhorn
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
happen to me to, but i kinda like it, cause of the campaign
maybe the missile should be able to go over the hills and mountain o.O, the missile effect in DOW, how the missile flies over the hill
maybe the missile should be able to go over the hills and mountain o.O, the missile effect in DOW, how the missile flies over the hill
Re: ground penetrating projectiles
heh... well... file a bug report (http://developer.wz2100.net/newticket), even though this is known. Maybe someone with enough time will fix it.
Or it could just be a new technology that phases the bullet into another space time continuum...and when it clears the obstacle, then BOOM!
Or it could just be a new technology that phases the bullet into another space time continuum...and when it clears the obstacle, then BOOM!
and it ends here.
- lav_coyote25
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
Buginator wrote: a new technology that phases the bullet into another space time continuum...and when it clears the obstacle, then BOOM!
thats it exactly - there!! bug fixed. xD
Re: ground penetrating projectiles
Well, that's not too annoying. The more annoying part is when tanks shoot at things they can't hit. As I've mentioned before, for balance reasons, I prefer for the projectile to go through the ground than for it to continue to shoot at a target it has zero chances of hitting. If the graphics look too ugly, we might move the projectile slightly above-ground for the rendering phase.
- psychopompos
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
less annoying? its infuriating!Zarel wrote:Well, that's not too annoying. The more annoying part is when tanks shoot at things they can't hit.
it completely, totally and utterly sucks any semblance of strategically placing units/structures in relation to the environment from the stratagy.
and makes the use of tall defences to protect vehicles at repair stations pointless.
putting defences in places the landscape protects them, forcing the enemy to come within range = good tactics
putting defences in places the landscape protects them, preventing artillery hitting effectivly = good tactics
putting tanks on top of a hill, so that all but the turret is occluded from targeting = good tactics
hiding damaged units behind defensive walls/structures = good tactics
having your vtols duck & land behind a cliff = good tactics
Zarel wrote:As I've mentioned before, for balance reasons, I prefer for the projectile to go through the ground than for it to continue to shoot at a target it has zero chances of hitting.
thats does not seem like a balance issue.
more of, you need to move your unit to where it can hit effectively.
or have the unit check its LOS itself what part of the target is not occluded & aim at that part.
if the target is completely occluded... maybe it should just stop firing and move, reporting a "no line of sight" dialogue etc.
nothing wrong with the graphics here.Zarel wrote:Well, that's not tooIf the graphics look too ugly, we might move the projectile slightly above-ground for the rendering phase.
Re: ground penetrating projectiles
Not true.psychopompos wrote:less annoying? its infuriating!
it completely, totally and utterly sucks any semblance of strategically placing units/structures in relation to the environment from the stratagy.
and makes the use of tall defences to protect vehicles at repair stations pointless.
Currently, if something is outside of line-of-sight, the unit will move until it's within line-of-sight before shooting at it. Because of that, all your strategy still holds.
That's why projectiles penetrating the ground is incorrect behavior: Not because it's going through the ground, but being it shouldn't be shooting at something it can't hit in the first place.
The situation I've seen the problem the worst is in mostly-level but slightly convex terrain. It's pretty much impossible to tell when this is, but you'll see units be unable to shoot through seemingly flat terrain. That sucks.
That's exactly what I'm saying! -_-psychopompos wrote:if the target is completely occluded... maybe it should just stop firing and move, reporting a "no line of sight" dialogue etc.
- psychopompos
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
completly true!Zarel wrote:Not true.
exactly how do you make use of 'terrain cover' when projectiles penetrate the terraign?
exactly how do you make use of 'fortification cover' when projectiles pass through the defences?
so the targeting code works. brilliant, thats less work then.Zarel wrote:Currently, if something is outside of line-of-sight, the unit will move until it's within line-of-sight before shooting at it. Because of that, all your strategy still holds.
if not compensating for target occlusion?
at least its tryingZarel wrote:That's why projectiles penetrating the ground is incorrect behavior: Not because it's going through the ground, but being it shouldn't be shooting at something it can't hit in the first place.
PERFECT!!Zarel wrote:The situation I've seen the problem the worst is in mostly-level but slightly convex terrain. It's pretty much impossible to tell when this is, but you'll see units be unable to shoot through seemingly flat terrain. That sucks.
thats called using terraign cover!!
thats how it should work.
use artillary to mitigate the problem.
though future use of accurate projectile arcs would help.
and missiles can turn in mid air.
move your camera around to double check, and also, try holding "Z" + "ctrl" then release "Z" then release "ctrl".
which does not mean ground/wall/structure penetrating projectiles.Zarel wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying! -_-
Re: ground penetrating projectiles
No, using actual varied terrain is called terrain cover.psychopompos wrote:PERFECT!!
thats called using terraign cover!!
thats how it should work.
use artillary to mitigate the problem.
though future use of accurate projectile arcs would help.
and missiles can turn in mid air.
Not being able to fire past SUPPOSEDLY FLAT TERRAIN is just annoyance. Although that's partially the fault of map designers...
- psychopompos
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
i think maybe you where missing a small dip/rise in the terrain.
i also thing the targeting needs to compensate for target occlusion, as im not sure it does this
if thats not the case i will re-install the (2.1.3 ?) version with the realistic hit system & you can give me an example save.
i also thing the targeting needs to compensate for target occlusion, as im not sure it does this
if thats not the case i will re-install the (2.1.3 ?) version with the realistic hit system & you can give me an example save.
Re: ground penetrating projectiles
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "slight convexity". I shouldn't have to memorize where all the small dips/rises are, just to play the game. This is a real-time strategy game, not a "find the hidden obstacles" game. I have no problem with terrain obstruction, but obstructing terrain should be visible.psychopompos wrote:i think maybe you where missing a small dip/rise in the terrain.
It does (it raycasts). It's just really inaccurate about it.psychopompos wrote:i also thing the targeting needs to compensate for target occlusion, as im not sure it does this
This uses the same hit system as 2.1.3... This is the hit system that's supposedly realistic; it's just kind of buggy, s'all.psychopompos wrote:if thats not the case i will re-install the (2.1.3 ?) version with the realistic hit system & you can give me an example save.
- psychopompos
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Re: ground penetrating projectiles
you mean observing the terraign & taking advantage of it isnt stratagy?Zarel wrote:Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "slight convexity". I shouldn't have to memorize where all the small dips/rises are, just to play the game. This is a real-time strategy game, not a "find the hidden obstacles" game.
sorry to tell you (well, not really ), but dealing with uneven terrain is a central part of strategy
hold "Z" then hold in "CTRL" at the same time, then release "Z" then release "CTRL"Zarel wrote:I have no problem with terrain obstruction, but obstructing terrain should be visible.
go replicate it to see what i mean & make tapping Z toggle it, rather then having to hold "Z" for the effect.
that will make obstructing terrain quite easy to see.
its the first key combo i hit when i start a level.
i remember reading that now.Zarel wrote:It does (it raycasts). It's just really inaccurate about it.
but does that specifically mean it targets only the bit it can see?
when i was playing, one of my tanks was shooting a tower, it had LOS on the top of the tower (i moved the camera to check), but was aiming dead center, thus firing through the cliff face the tower was above a fer tiles back.
Zarel wrote:This uses the same hit system as 2.1.3... This is the hit system that's supposedly realistic; it's just kind of buggy, s'all
then which version was it where it was working?
i do remember feeling rather impressed when i saw the projectiles actually hitting the ground they where hitting.