Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

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Suprano
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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

Post by Suprano » 23 Oct 2006, 11:09

I could create a blender exporter for the pie format if i knew how that format is structured. I did not spend much time in the WZ code yet to find it out.

If you're search for a new model format, i am creating one for my own game Azadi, which will include Vertices, FAces, Bones (Bone have to exist in this modelformat, as this is the only way animating s.th. in my game), Animation and UV-Coordinates per face. All but the Animation is already working.

Now idea if you have use for that, but i can give you the loader/blender exporter if you wish)once its finished).

--Ano

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

Post by eikei » 29 Oct 2006, 18:38

.PIE format is structured in the next way:
TEXTURE 0 page-14-droid hubs.png256 256 (a line with a texture file name with its resolution (256x256 in original)

LEVELS 1 (I don't know what it is. AISI it's a line which depends on a number of parts of the unit (for exumple cyborgs have 3 parts - body, legs and arm, so .PIE code has a line "LEVELS 3" for them)

LEVEL 1

POINTS 42 (it means that the object has 42 points)

-20 31 37  (their coordenats x, z, y)
19 31 37
19 23 51
etc.

POLYGONS 13 (a number of polygons)
a00 4 3 2 1 0 35 67 59 67 59 60 35 60 (I don't know what is a00, 4 - a number of points connected in a polygon, 3 2 1 0 - their numbers, 35 67 59 67 59 60 35 60 - coordenats of pixels in a texture for each point xy; xy; xy; xy;)

CONNECTORS 2
0 12 34 ( points with coordenats x, y, where the cannon fixes)
0 -29 9
Last edited by eikei on 04 Nov 2006, 15:32, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry for my English:)

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

Post by eikei » 29 Oct 2006, 18:47

We've got a plugin for 3Ds MAX 6 which is to export .PIE files, but it doesn't work correctly. It writes the coordenats of the points but it doesn't write the coordenats of pixels in texture correctly. So that is a problem. Off course, it is possible to do it manually, but i think it's not a good idea ;)
Sorry for my English:)

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by MetalBeast » 02 Feb 2007, 00:03

Why did not use MD3-Format?
It comes from Quake3 and support all you need, I think ;)

And we could use GMAX for modeling, it's free version of 3DSMAX

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

Post by DevUrandom » 02 Feb 2007, 00:38

Enhancing this with links: http://icculus.org/homepages/phaethon/q ... ormat.html
Also have a look at the bottom of: http://wz2100.net/wiki/development:future_ideas
We will probably go with OGRE, as some of us were discussing http://wz2100.net/forum/index.php?topic=79.75
Additionaly I talked with sinbad, the OGRE project lead. He meant that the OGRE format is generic in such a way that most engine which use hardware rendering should be able to easily use it without performance loss.

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by MetalBeast » 02 Feb 2007, 01:43

OK, this Ogre-Format sounds good, but never heard about this ;)

I still think MD3 would be the better way, cause, there are many tools suppoting it and GMAX is probably one of the best free 3D Modelers available these days. Many games support MD3-models.
You should think about all these modders. Better support and more tools = better results ;)

And if you could make WZ read map or bsp format, we could use GTK-Radiant for making maps.
It is probably best Map Editor i ever worked with. But it's just a dream, i know :D

http://www.qeradiant.com/?data=editors/gtk

Anyway, I'm new to this forum and my english is some kind of bad, so sorry for this ;)

WZ2100 is one of my favorite games and I was very lucky hearing about, that it's open source now :D

Anyway, I'm modder in the q3 engine based scene since years and i would help you if i can.
My work area = mapping, textures, shaders, low-poly modeling, scripting.
So if you can need some help, just say it :D
Last edited by MetalBeast on 02 Feb 2007, 01:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by Giel » 02 Feb 2007, 11:42

MetalBeast wrote: OK, this Ogre-Format sounds good, but never heard about this ;)

I still think MD3 would be the better way, cause, there are many tools suppoting it and GMAX is probably one of the best free 3D Modelers available these days. Many games support MD3-models.
You should think about all these modders. Better support and more tools = better results ;)

And if you could make WZ read map or bsp format, we could use GTK-Radiant for making maps.
It is probably best Map Editor i ever worked with. But it's just a dream, i know :D
Well, so you think MD3 would be better because you've heard of it and thus know where and how it is supported?
Then let me surprise you with some OGRE Exporters

Btw that map editor seems to be focused mainly on first person shooters, I might be wrong there though.
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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by kage » 02 Feb 2007, 14:44

gmax isn't a professional tool, it's a low end modder's tool (really just a promotional tool), and getting plugins to work with it is hell. blender and wings3d are both truely free tools, and are both several orders of magnitude better than gmax. md3 is getting outdated... i figure it's better to have a format whose features we can't even begin to use in the next 5 years than a format that will be encumbering for us a year from now.

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by MetalBeast » 02 Feb 2007, 17:59

kage wrote: gmax isn't a professional tool, it's a low end modder's tool (really just a promotional tool), and getting plugins to work with it is hell.
Sorry, but i see it other way, GMAX ist the younger brother of 3DSmax 4, the only difference is lack of renderer an the plugin-restrictions (which are really annoying), but there are workarounds.
So i don't understand what you are meaning with "low end" ? ;)
And it is very stable, working also on older notebooks with poor graphic-card.

I don't like blender, the user-interface is horrorible and it crashes very often without a reason or error-message.
Milkshape is ok, not very professional but has may plugins, and Wings 3D is very early in it's functionality.

The Ogre-format seems to has many plugins, but the most are for very expensive professional-software.
Nobody will pay hunderts/tousands of dollar for buying professional 3D-Software and modelling for open-source game ;)

But anyway, it was just an idea, I wanted to help, no reason to attack me this way.
It's your project and you woll do what you are meanining is better for it.

Have a luck.
Last edited by MetalBeast on 02 Feb 2007, 18:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by Giel » 02 Feb 2007, 20:11

MetalBeast wrote: Sorry, but i see it other way, GMAX ist the younger brother of 3DSmax 4, the only difference is lack of renderer an the plugin-restrictions (which are really annoying), but there are workarounds.
So i don't understand what you are meaning with "low end" ? ;)
And it is very stable, working also on older notebooks with poor graphic-card.
Well, you've got to admit then that GMAX is a bit old then. Unless it's updated, which Autodesk to my opinion rarely does after they've released a new version (that's at least the case with Autocad).
MetalBeast wrote: I don't like blender, the user-interface is horrorible and it crashes very often without a reason or error-message.
Milkshape is ok, not very professional but has may plugins, and Wings 3D is very early in it's functionality.
Well about the user-interface I find Blender to be just as easy/difficult as 3DS Max's interface (I'm far from an efficient/good 3D designer, so I'll keep it at both are difficult to me). Then as for crashing; I've never had Blender crash anywhere else than in the pie-importer plugin (which btw was due to an invalid PIE file).
MetalBeast wrote: The Ogre-format seems to has many plugins, but the most are for very expensive professional-software.
Nobody will pay hunderts/tousands of dollar for buying professional 3D-Software and modelling for open-source game ;)
Well blender is among those modeling-suits and I wouldn't quite call that one expensive. If necessary we could always use blender for importing format X and exporting to .mesh-format.

And you'd be surprised how much money some people are prepared to pay for open source software. Plus at some Dutch schools I know of you'll get a student's license for 3DS Max (graphical design courses).
MetalBeast wrote: But anyway, it was just an idea, I wanted to help, no reason to attack me this way.
It's your project and you woll do what you are meanining is better for it.
Can't speak for kage, but I wasn't trying to attack you at all. Just trying to make clear why I thought that OGRE's mesh seems better to me than MD3. So if you felt offended I'm sorry for that.
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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by kage » 02 Feb 2007, 23:39

Giel wrote: Well, you've got to admit then that GMAX is a bit old then. Unless it's updated, which Autodesk to my opinion rarely does after they've released a new version (that's at least the case with Autocad).
doesn't actually mean it's really old -- many editors support low-quality editing with high-quality output (as in editing only chunks of a mesh at a time), so it may be that gmax is doing this on older notebooks... i don't know -- last time i heavily used gmax was in the 3ds max r7 days.

my apologies as well. i didn't mean to attack you -- was meaning to attack gmax ;). anyways, i'm used to "all keyboard all the time", so personally i wouldn't think of anything beyond blender atm (minimum of mouse usage), or it'd be way too slow for me.

as you said, gmax doesn't have a renderer or anything like it, which, while it may be good for modelling and great for game modelling, it automatically by definition keeps it out of the pro realm (and autodesk was doing this intentionally so you'd be interested in buying 3ds max -- somewhat "defective by design").

i personally liked gmax for some game modding, but after a time i found it really is limited in many areas that are not thought to be important for game modelling, such as subsurface rendering, but many of those things are now becoming common in game models. i completely agree with you on your point about blender: the graphical user interface is indeed horrid from a functional standpoint -- in fact, there really isn't one. the window management system is indeed very advanced, but aside from that, the menus are entirely unintuitive -- the thing is, you really can't use blender to any great degree if you aren't very familiar and comfortable with the hotkeys, hotkey combinations, and hotkey sequences. if you are comfortable with them, blender will lag behind maya and 3ds in some areas and surpass them in others, but has all bases covered to at least some extent (ui aside, its feature portfolio in whole matches the whole of maya's or 3ds'), but if you like mouse-only work, forget blender, it won't ever be worth it then.
Giel wrote: And you'd be surprised how much money some people are prepared to pay for open source software. Plus at some Dutch schools I know of you'll get a student's license for 3DS Max (graphical design courses).
yeah. not only that, but also how much people are willing to pay to provide others with access to open source software. aladdin 4d is being sold to the open source community for 37,500 usd, with only 3,200 usd to go, and blender itself, despite the bugs you've experienced (older version?) was sold into the open source community for 100,000 euros, so in an indirect sense, i'm using software 3d modelling software worth 100,000 euros for my game design stuff.
Giel wrote: Can't speak for kage, but I wasn't trying to attack you at all. Just trying to make clear why I thought that OGRE's mesh seems better to me than MD3. So if you felt offended I'm sorry for that.
it's really probably better if you do speak for me, giel. anyways, beast is taking this in a wholly positive direction, sooner or later we'll have to ditch the pie file if we want to improve graphics signifigantly, and in that area, almost any format is better than pie from a "effort vs features" perspective. my thought on md3 was not meant to be offensive -- i was just figuring that if we're pushing for a new format, we'd might as well push all the way, given that implementing md3 is just as easy/tough as implementing something ultra-modern. if we decide on a format that your editor doesn't immediately support then you're more than welcome to email me in the middle of the night: i'll be happy to convert files for you or anyone else if needed.

btw speeder, .x files are, iirc, directx mesh files -- since we're not, and probably never will be using directx in the engine, it'd be something of a hack to get something to work.
Last edited by kage on 03 Feb 2007, 09:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

Post by DevUrandom » 03 Feb 2007, 13:10

There's also MD4. ;)
And I got something to share about .X:
sinbad wrote: Our formats were created to address the issue that most existing formats were either 'too' flexible because they're designed for modelling tools, or were undocumented / proprietary, or were just designed by an over-engineering lunatic (.X) ;)
And Metal: I don't think that it would be a problem for us, if there is no exporter for whatever tool you use. Like Giel said, Blender can import a lot of formats and could thus be used to convert to whatever format we decide on.
Additionally someone might want to create a converter or even an export plugin for your editor, so I don't think there would be any issues.

BTW: Everyone is allways welcome. :) I hope we can make 2.1 a lot more modder friendly so there are some more people joining. :)

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

Post by rush2049 » 05 Feb 2007, 00:04

well over in the (super long) new headquarters thread we are discussing the same thing...  ogre is sounding like a winner. Blender's dev team are implementing ogre as the renderer for its own game engine and probably will have working export/import scripts soon (old scripts were just that, old).

Blender most definitly can be used to convert formats, and as of right now I support saving and uploading all models worked on for warzone in ac3d (.ac) format.  This seems to be the simplest format that is very widely supported. It carries all coordinate data with it, and some (???) material properties. Blender can be used to texture/proceduraly texture the models when ogre is implemented....

It is all coming together, the next blender release is in a week, or two... so...    hopefully ogre support comes with it, if not it will be there soon....
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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new texture

Post by Cranox » 09 Feb 2007, 16:32

is i'm not mistaken didn't elric had a plugin for maya?

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Re: Tell, what is necessary to make new models for Warzone 2100 with new textures?

Post by rush2049 » 11 Feb 2007, 08:25

I think he was making models in maya, for Total Warzone, maybe it was for warzone???

but I don't think he had a plugin to pie files, that I am pretty sure of
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