NEXUS flame artillery?

[eyestrain92]

I'm sure this has been answered long ago but this was never revealed to me-in the final campaign mission, I remember on the PSX that Nexus had this weapon you could not obtain, which was something along the lines of a teal flamer on a vindicator SAM base which shot fireballs at artillery ranges. I remember my track/python/heavies disappearing every couple of seconds and only seeing a flash of a fireball. What were these damn things?

[whippersnapper]

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- I think the following thread may answer your question (Nexus Plasma Mortar):

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2719&p=26383&hilit= ... sma#p26383

- Regards, whipper

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[3drts]

What were these damn things?

Unbalanced Über Artillery.

I believe the 3-d model for the weapon is the same used for the Plasma cannon in multiplayer, but the weapons are very different.

From structureweapons.txt:
NX-Emp-Plasma-Pit,PlasmaHeavy,NULL,NULL,NULL,121
An emplacement using the "PlasmaHeavy" weapon.

From weapons.txt:
bold= Range, then a number inversely proportional to rate of fire(this is a little different for single vs salvo fire weapons), then damage.
PlasmaHeavy,Level Three,75,375,10000,1,10,5,GNHPLASM.PIE,TRHPLASM.PIE,FXMHowt.PIE,FXMflare.PIE,FXLExp.PIE,FXLExp.PIE,FXMSplsh.PIE,0,1920,10000,40,99,60,2,0,0,500,256,99,250,30,100,32,10,10,400,20,NO,HEAT,FLAME,INDIRECT,ANTI TANK,180,90,-30,YES,YES,50,768,YES,200,0,0,0,0

Compare to the Hellstorm:
Howitzer03-Rot,Level Two-Three,400,1600,10000,1,10,5,GNHHOWT2.PIE,TRHHOW2.PIE,FXHHowt2.PIE,FXCAmmo.PIE,FXLExp.PIE,FXLExp.PIE,FXLSplsh.PIE,0,1920,7000,40,50,40,2,0,0,100,128,99,100,0,0,0,0,10,1000,20,NO,KINETIC,HOWITZERS,INDIRECT,ARTILLERY ROUND,0,90,0,YES,NO,250,128,YES,200,0,0,1,0

Howitzer:
Howitzer105Mk1,Level Two-Three,250,1000,10000,1,10,5,GNMHOWT.PIE,TRMHOWT.PIE,FxCan75m.PIE,FXCAmmo.PIE,FXLExp.PIE,FXLExp.PIE,FXMSplsh.PIE,0,1920,5000,40,50,200,2,0,0,150,128,99,150,0,0,0,10,10,1000,20,NO,KINETIC,HOWITZERS,INDIRECT,ARTILLERY ROUND,0,90,0,YES,NO,250,128,YES,250,0,0,1,0

Angel Missile:
Missile-MdArt,Level All,400,1200,1000,1,10,50,Gnmmslaa.PIE,Trmmslaa.PIE,FXMMort.PIE,FXMPLME.PIE,FXMExp.PIE,FXMExp.PIE,FXMExp.PIE,0,2000,12000,50,80,2,2,4,300,200,96,99,100,0,0,0,0,10,1000,20,YES,KINETIC,MISSILE,INDIRECT,ARTILLERY ROUND,180,90,-30,YES,NO,10,512,YES,100,0,0,1,0

and the Archangel missile:
Missile-HvyArt,Level Two-Three,500,1500,10000,1,10,50,gnhmslab.PIE,trhmslab.PIE,FXICBM.PIE,FXHPLME.PIE,FXMExp.PIE,FXMExp.PIE,FXMExp.PIE,0,2000,25000,50,80,5,1,4,400,250,128,99,150,0,0,0,0,10,800,20,NO,KINETIC,MISSILE,INDIRECT,ARTILLERY ROUND,0,45,-30,YES,NO,25,512,YES,100,0,0,1,0

Now these stats do not include upgrades, and I believe the Howitzer ROF and damage upgrades are more than the Flamer upgrades (in campaign, so I can't check on the wzguide)
so the following is an approximation of relative strengths, and it doesn't factor in armor or warhead type:
Damage/ the inverse of the ROF = Damage *ROF
Rotary Howitzer: 100/40 = 2.5
Heavy Plasma: 500/60= 8.333
HP/RH = 8.3333/2.5= 3.333

Its over 3 times as powerful as a Hellstorm - at least it would be if neither had any upgrades, as it would be at the start of a game if you made a custom map in editworld, and added a Hellstorm and Plasma pit to a starting position, and used advanced bases.

[Zarel]

Teehee. You do realize I already did those calculations in Whipper's link, except a lot more accurately since I actually factored in stuff like accuracy and upgrades, right?

I believe the 3-d model for the weapon is the same used for the Plasma cannon in multiplayer, but the weapons are very different.

Nope. They eventually made a Plasma Cannon model that looks similar to the Nexus Plasma Mortar, but it's definitely not the same model.

a number inversely proportional to rate of fire(this is a little different for single vs salvo fire weapons)

Teehee. The column is called firePause. In RTSes in general, it's called reload time. You could've at least said "1/ROF", it's a lot more concise than "a number inversely proportional to rate of fire".

Its over 3 times as powerful as a Hellstorm - at least it would be if neither had any upgrades, as it would be at the start of a game if you made a custom map in editworld, and added a Hellstorm and Plasma pit to a starting position, and used advanced bases.

Way more than 3 times, honestly. Have you ever used the thing? Try it.

[3drts]

As to the ROF - ROF given in game is rounds per minute.
So if the person asking thought the value 1/ROF was in rounds per minute, then for the hellstorm, ROF would = 1/40= 0.025, and for the Plasma = 1/60 = 0.016.
It is not 1/The ROF value displayed in game, which is why I didn't concisely say 1/ROF.
Perhaps c*1/ROF where c is a constant.

I have not used it in game.
Are the upgrade levels really so different my initial calculation of ~3x as powerful are wrong?
Did he do the calculations for both campaign (the only place you actually see it), as well as multiplayer(in case it were added as is)?
Factor in a heavy body with 100 armor, and then the Howitzer will be significantly weaker than the HeavyPlasma.

And then there are the modifiers....
Plasma being an Anti Tank Flame Weapon, Hellstorm an Artillery howitzer weapon
If you use the current modifiers in 0.4.2, against tracked units, artillery does 60%, but Anti-Tank 120%
both get 250% damage upgrades
Hellstorm damage to 250, plama to 500*2.5= 1,250
Flamers: 182% rof upgrade
Howies: 200%

So factoring in modifiers and an armor of 100: (250*.6)-100= 50 damage for Hellstorm, 40 times per minute = 200 damage a minute
(1250*1.2)-100 = 1,400 damage for plasma heavy, about 24 times per minute = 33,600 damage per minute
A huge difference

Take a cyborg target: Anti-tank currently set to 30%, Arty to 130%, with no Armor upgrades, and I think the Hellstorm would come out on top.

But if included in the Multiplayer game, it should probably be given either the AP, Flamer, Arty, or All Rounder damage class.

[Zarel]

I have not used it in game.
Are the upgrade levels really so different my initial calculation of ~3x as powerful are wrong?
Did he do the calculations for both campaign (the only place you actually see it), as well as multiplayer(in case it were added as is)?
Factor in a heavy body with 100 armor, and then the Howitzer will be significantly weaker than the HeavyPlasma.

Like I said, you also forgot to factor in a lot of other things (such as accuracy). Just go with the Guide values, seriously.

http://wzguide.co.cc/w/heavyplasmalauncher
http://wzguide.co.cc/w/hellstorm

Nexus Plasma Mortar has a DPS/A0 of 83 base, 722 maxed
Hellstorm has a DPS/A0 of 13 base, 102 maxed

(These stats are true of all of 2.1, 1.10, and campaign)

7x stronger base. If you assume an armor of 100, it becomes 12x stronger.

But if included in the Multiplayer game, it should probably be given either the AP, Flamer, Arty, or All Rounder damage class.

If included in the multiplayer game, I'd make it all-rounder, for one. After that, I'd probably push the damage and ROF down to less than half what they currently are. Maybe decrease the range, too.