Having trouble dealing with VTOLs and other issues.

[themousemaster]

4 groups of planes, 2 planes per group. 5, 6, 7, and 8 (1-4 are reserved for other main groups of mine).

When the air forces shows up, I give the commands to each of them. Sometimes I hit all 4, sometimes only 2 or 3, depending on amount of advance warning, and how fast the planes I'm targetting are.

If an fighter-force has more than 4 planes in it... well then, the ones above #4 are going to get through (at least until I get SAMs ;p). Bombers, of course, move like they are flying through molasses rather than air, so I can do whatever to them.



And Loblaw: Yes, in WZ 2.1, you are going to have to play that stage as a suicide mission. Make a bunch of scrub TK units on hover bodies, send in 1 truck and the scrubforce, have the lone truck build a sensor tower near the SW corner of the map to detect when the commander is passing, and slam into the battlegroup's flank when you can get a clear shot at the commander. The unit that recovers the part does *not* have to make it back to the LZ; after grabbing it, have your lone truck head back to the LZ instead (along with any srubc units still floating). I forget how long into the mission he shows; you might be able to fly in a 2nd group of suicide tanks before the fatal battle.

The only way AA works in that stage is if you build a crapton of it against the center of the NORTHER EDGE of the map, so that it can fire at the planes as they enter the battlefield, before they can get up to full speed. However, given th layout of this stage, just pressing through the enemy defenses to the north-center of the map is suicide in and of itself.

[Skrim]

4 groups of planes, 2 planes per group. 5, 6, 7, and 8 (1-4 are reserved for other main groups of mine).

When the air forces shows up, I give the commands to each of them. Sometimes I hit all 4, sometimes only 2 or 3, depending on amount of advance warning, and how fast the planes I'm targetting are.

If an fighter-force has more than 4 planes in it... well then, the ones above #4 are going to get through (at least until I get SAMs ;p). Bombers, of course, move like they are flying through molasses rather than air, so I can do whatever to them.

So you're saying that you manually click on enemy fighters coming in at speed 700 at normal game speed? Wow. As for bombers, yes, they're damn friggin' slow, so it's easy to manually target them, but not fighters(at least not without slowing down things).

And SAMs are only available for the last 3 missions. Gamma 7 has hardly any air threats anyway, so make that the last 2 missions.

[themousemaster]

Yes, that is what I am saying. Lots of CounterStrike practice, I guess. That said, if I have some advance warning, then it's not so much as "moving my pointer onto things flying at 700", as it is "move my pointer to a place they will fly into a quarter second from now, right click like mad as they pass over the cursor, and then repeat for the next one". Given that VTOL pilots like to give a verbal affirmation of when you give them an order, I can tell if I got it right, and stop clicking if I do.

As for Air threats only being SAM-able in the last couple stages... yes, for the campaign. I do a fair bit of Skirmishing too, though.

[Bob Loblaw]

All right, I made it back to this stage and I am attempting this mission using the heavier armor. I have followed the instructions but my results are not successful. Here is what happens:

I have 5 trucks and 5 tanks land. The five trucks start to build a repair facility immediately south of the LZ. This is targeted and destroyed by artillery before it is finished. I then build anti-tank weapons a bit east and they too are destroyed by artillery. Tanks come from the east and attack. Planes come and destroy one or two of my tanks. I have no way of building anything to combat the aircraft or artillery.

[Skrim]

That's strange. AFAIK, Ripple Rockets & Howitzers haven't got a range extension in 2.1. The Repair Facility in my screenshots is outside the range of the Collective Ripple Rockets. Maybe you're building yours too far south.

But then, in 2.0.10, Ripple Rockets never manage to hit anything within their range either.

Yes, that is what I am saying. Lots of CounterStrike practice, I guess. That said, if I have some advance warning, then it's not so much as "moving my pointer onto things flying at 700", as it is "move my pointer to a place they will fly into a quarter second from now, right click like mad as they pass over the cursor, and then repeat for the next one". Given that VTOL pilots like to give a verbal affirmation of when you give them an order, I can tell if I got it right, and stop clicking if I do.

As for Air threats only being SAM-able in the last couple stages... yes, for the campaign. I do a fair bit of Skirmishing too, though.

Yeah. I just suck at predicting the position of my targets. That's probably why I was lousy as a fighter pilot in Combat Flight Simulator 3(though bombing slow-moving ground/sea targets or immobile structures was easy).

As for Skirmishes, yeah, SAMs are good stuff. The actual missiles though, are rather slow, so I always increase the speed of Avenger, Vindicator and Scourge to 1200 in my mods(i.e, equal to Lancer speed. The original Avenger did 900, the Vindicator did 700), and also make Laser weapons 100% accurate, and make the Stormbringer and the incendiary bombs do Heat damage instead of Kinetic.

[Bob Loblaw]

I finally got it! I did have my repair facility one hex too far south the previous time. The VTOLs came non-stop and were hell bent for leather for a lone VTOL I accidently stuffed into a transport. When the enemy planes came, I danced it over my extensive AA battery dodging their missles until the AA could do their job.

Now I am on Beta 9 which is somehow even more ridiculous. I tried the counter-VTOL VTOL strategy but some sort of blue missle takes down all my planes when a truck even nudges them. The enemy VTOLs come in waves immediately and no matter what I do, I can't stop them.

[Skrim]

Remember what I said. NEVER bring VTOLs in your first transport load. Send them in only when the LZ is secure, and when you have your Rearming Pads in place. It's an idiotic fact that VTOL units need to be carried in the Transport anyway(I mean, they can fly by themselves also), but I doubt whether this will be changed any time soon.

The blue object you have encountered is a Surface-to-Air Missile(SAM), which we've mentioned several times already in this topic. NEXUS has provided the Collective with the technology to construct Avenger SAM Sites, a powerful air defense system with a very long range. In Missions Beta 9 and Beta 10, your job is to destroy these sites so that your Transport has a clear path for evacuation of Beta Base, and doesn't get shot down again like it did in Beta 1.

You can try baiting the enemy VTOLs with a Repair Facility again to the north of your LZ, and then build defenses to stop the hovercraft attack that comes in from the lake a little while after you land, while you send heavy tanks eastward to eliminate the enemy SAM Sites that are within range of your LZ. Once those are dead and you've held the enemy planes for a while using decoy structures, you can bring in TK-VTOLs to provide air defense and build a crazy huge AA gun barrage.

After that you can use whatever you want to destroy the enemy, though if you want to use VTOLs, the only VTOL that can really stand up to an Avenger SAM Site is the Bunker Buster Mantis(or Bunker Buster Python if you're willing to trade off some speed for a bit more armor). Even with these planes, it is advised to send in a cheap MG-Bug scout plane to attract SAM fire and die while your more valuable planes destroy the enemy air defenses. The weakness of the SAM Sites is their long reload time - so if they all unload their missiles against your scout plane, your attack planes get some time to destroy them before they can fire again.

[themousemaster]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2361


If you are having trouble with Beta9 in 2.1.X, look at the 3rd post in the linked thread.



In other news, I'll give you a heads-up right now: in 2 more stages (BETA11), you are about to experience VTOL HELL. Next stage, though, will just be a few, non-replaced vtols you have to deal with.

At the end of BETA10, be sure you research all technologies, have at least 6-8 units built on the new Tiger body (I recommend your commanders and Assault Gun tanks get the upgrades), and a LOT of trucks sitting around, before you complete it. You'll see why, but trust me on this advice... given 2.1.Xs changes, this is the only way to save your tenured units.



Good news though: as much as the 2.1.X game version made the BETA missions hard as marble, the next series (GAMMA) will be less about brutalizing you with VTOLS, and more about you using your head to figure out the stage's solutions. Not that there won't be a few "OSH--" moments, but it should be far more "possible".

[Bob Loblaw]

Well my "OH SH--" moment came after the gamma mission in which I had to move my troops to a valley in the east. The mission ended early after I cleared the map and the scenario ended. I saved the game then I noticed upon entering the next mission, the entire force that went on the last misison was gone! So there went all my tenured veterans. I played on for a bit then could not end the mission. There was an invulnerable enemy transport on the map and no other enemies. I guess that is enough Warzone for me for a while.

[J_J]

i heard a lot about that transport on the map...wonder how you are supposed to get rid of it...

[Skrim]

The Transport in Gamma 3 is referred to in my "Invincible UFO Attacks in Gamma 3" topic. You can get rid of it by playing the mission again or using cheats to go to the next mission.

@Bob,
About for the force that disappeared after Gamma 2, they're trying to get back to base on there own and have lost contact with the rest of the Project(including you). Survivors from the nuclear attack on Alpha Base are also trying to do the same thing, and survivors from the assimilation of Gamma Base are setting up a new base to the south. Over the next 3 missions, all these lost forces will be reunited with you.