Power Problems (In-game)

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themousemaster
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by themousemaster »

I figure I should also put this here, so that you don't end up kicking yourself in the rectum repeatedly when this happens.  This is in reference to the final beta-stage, so if you don't want to read ahead, you don't have to.



***SPOILER ALERT***

In the final beta stage, you will be leaving the base, much like you did from alpha to beta.  And just like alpha to beta, you will only be able to send FOUR TRANSPORTS OF 10 UNITS EACH.  So while "spamming tanks" makes for a very nice steamrolling strategy, you can't take it all with you.  My recommendation is to trim your forces to about 35 combat tanks and 5 trucks by the time you hit the final stage; scratch any VTOLS you have before the last stage, as they will be mostly useless in the first of the gamma-stages (at least until you have a base set up with rearming pads).  if you concentrate on a specialized group of units, then when you get to the gamma-stages, you will have a group of high-tenured units going for you, and it helps immensely, given what you run into.

Once you get to Gamma, feel free to resume tank spamming.  In fact, given the way the stages play out, mass flooding is among the best strats you can use.

***/SPOILER ALERT***
astral
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by astral »

***SPOILER ALERT***

In the final beta stage, you will be leaving the base, much like you did from alpha to beta.  And just like alpha to beta, you will only be able to send FOUR TRANSPORTS OF 10 UNITS EACH.  So while "spamming tanks" makes for a very nice steamrolling strategy, you can't take it all with you.  My recommendation is to trim your forces to about 35 combat tanks and 5 trucks by the time you hit the final stage; scratch any VTOLS you have before the last stage, as they will be mostly useless in the first of the gamma-stages (at least until you have a base set up with rearming pads).  if you concentrate on a specialized group of units, then when you get to the gamma-stages, you will have a group of high-tenured units going for you, and it helps immensely, given what you run into.

Once you get to Gamma, feel free to resume tank spamming.  In fact, given the way the stages play out, mass flooding is among the best strats you can use.

***/SPOILER ALERT***
Erm...I think I might have found a seriously strange bug then.

*also spoilers*

I can only take 1 transport when I do the last beta mission, (am about 4 missions into gamma now.) and then something wierd happens : no new transport arrives, and I just watch the collective smashing my base up instead after the first has gone. Then, and here's the wierd bit : the 3 other transports start turning up when I'm at the new base location, but they have all highly ranked units in them, and I had none before. Like, heroes and other highly ranked ones. I just thought that I was getting extra help from the game when it happened though, and didn't think it was a bug. It was awesome though... So hasn't anyone else had this? If so and it's a bug, then I'll have to start gamma over again, because I don't want that extra help if it's not supposed to happen...

And : all of my previous things to research had been taken away, and I had nothing I could research apart from 2 new things. (can't remember what they were now though.) If this hasn't been seen before though I'll screenie it and post it in bugs or something.
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shishkebab
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by shishkebab »

Hey, that's exactly what happened to me! I was on the final beta level, I loaded my best units and a few trucks onto the first transport and it never came back. Unfortunately, the game crashed right after that level and I didn't have a savegame so I don't know about the other transports or the research.
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astral
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by astral »

Wierd.... Guess I'll have to go back to the mission before the last in beta too, because it keeps doing the same thing every time I load the save. Gah!

Will add this to the bugs related forum anyway.
themousemaster
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by themousemaster »

Never had that problem.

Transport is supposed to re-arrive exactly 7 minutes after it reaches the edge of the screen.  It also takes 1 minute, round trip, from landing pad to the NW edge where it leaves.  That's why you get 4 loads; 8 minutes per trip, 30 minute evac.


The only thing I can think of is a bug where the transport has to hit a very specific X,Y co-ordinate to "leave" the map, otherwise it just floats around in circles.  This bug (if it happens) is prominently noticeable in the final gamma stage, since the transport's entry area is 1 inch away from the LZ.

The way to get around it in that stage is to slow your game down; as it turns out, while the motion of the transport is directly related to game speed, it's turning rate is not; so slowing the game down allows it to actually face it's "destination co-ordinate" and is able to hit it.

If the same thing is happening in the last BETA stage, I guess you could try the same fix... although it would be hard to tell if it worked, since you have to wait 7 minutes before finding out.



Also, if you are getting absolutely steamrolled by the collective before the 30 minutes are up in that stage...


The stage right before the final one (the stage where you have to clear the AA batteries before you can evac) is a relatively simple one to finish in short order.  You can actually load your first 10 units into your transport at base, but then NOT SEND THEM for the first 20 minutes.  Use these 20 minutes to build crazy amounts of defenses in preparation for the collective invasion; you'll need anti-land defenses covering both the NNE of the map (the road area right where the old collective base was), and at the extreme SE corner.  You will also need a plethora of AA turrets covering your base's north, NW, and NE sides; preferably, have 2 walls of mixed Hurricane and WhirlWind AA turrets covering each side.



I suggest the last stage for this because by that point you will have all the best tech for your hardpoints available to you.  If this turns out to not be enough time, then go all the way back to the stage when you first got VTOL tech (the final main-base mission of the beta campaign), and use it's monsterous 2 hour time limit to set up (and fund) all of your AA and and artillery, and then use the 2nd-to-last missions first 20 minutes to set up the hardpoints.



You know the trick to let the timer wind down for maximum cash intake, right?  How is it you hadn't finished all of your research before leaving for gamma?  I mean if you get them all researched for free when you land, that's awesome, but...



Oh, and that reminds me of something else...

Towards the end of beta, you get techs for the HPV and AssaultCannon (which replace the medium and light cannons, respectively).  You want to research these as they open up new tech trees, but you do NOT want to stick them on any actual units.  Heavy Cannons, Tank Killers, and AssaultGuns are the only tanks you want to use from the time you get them, until near the end of the Gamma stages. (Not counting your preferred artillery, of course).  Tank Killers do the most single shot damage, Heavy Cannons sport the most body points, and AssaultGuns do the most Damage/time to anything not in a heavy body itself.  Min/Maxing for the win ;p.

(Please note:  This is for campaign only.  HPV and AssaultCannons are not bad choices for multiplayer if you are going the cannon-route)
astral
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by astral »

[---spoiler screenshot in post---]

Hey,

I made a couple of crazily stupid errors for the first time I played this again, and the main one was probably to try finishing the game using the testers download.  ::) I think that's where the bugs have cropped up, and I've now deleted the old saves and changed to the latest stable version. Things are a lot better now too, because I can play the game a lot better and know what I'm doing way more than I did earlier.

So I'll try and hold the base next time, instead of getting my chars killed and just going off with the 1 transport. I'll be back at the level in a couple of levels time, and if I can keep my base like this I think I'll stand a lot better chance :

Image

I can't wait for them to turn up this time.  ;D

Will stop posting here now if I can anyway, so that the thread still stays on topic if possible.
themousemaster
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by themousemaster »

Interesting screenshot.  Now for my next post, which you probably won't like ;p.


First off, I see your army there.  In the 2nd to last beta stage, you will get the Tiger heavy body.  At that time, I HIGHLY suggest recycling all of your units into a Tiger-body equivalent.  Yes, that's expensive, but once you have the Gamma opponent shooting you up... put it this way: all of your paradigm-bodied units there?  they will all be 2-shot.

Also, I see you have a lot of Lancer tanks.  Upgrade them to Tank Killer rockets at first opportunity.  You'll need that extra "first volley punch".

Also, upgrade any light/medium cannon tanks into heavy cannons.

The crazy amount of money you need for this will be coming from the next few hours, where you roll over a stage, then let the timer wind down.  Don't forget:  you can recycle and rebuild units during away missions, as long as you build a Repair Bay at the away site (just make SURE you rebuild any recycled units before changing stages; not sure if the issue with recycled experience being lost between stages is still around; if not, forget I said it).



And now that I've had fun pointing out your units, time for your defenses...


The setup I am looking at now is going to get ---creamed---.  Hate to say it, but that's not gonna hold the whole half hour.


I don't have any SS's of beta on me, so I'll try and describe it instead:



A)  Bottom Right Assault
---The collective tanks from the SE area will spawn in against the bottom edge of the map, about 4 squares from the right edge.  Cover this with inferno strongpoints (2 spaces away), lancer bunkers (4 spaces away), and lots and lots of cannon/rocket hardpoints (7 spaces away), all in a semi-circular patter around that entry area.  Back THAT up with mortars and howitzers (go easy on the Ripple Rockets, their long reload time makes them less than admirable for this).  The assaults from this corner are infrequent enough that if you have 20 or so hard structures and 20 or so artillery backups (plus whatever is in your main base firing as well), it will hold.

B)  The Northern Assault
--- They will be throwing huge amounts of stuff at you from the north, where the road intersects with the screen edge at your northern outpost.  Right now, all you have up there are your oil derricks and a couple structures surrounding them; those will hold for all of 30 seconds.  You are going to want to set up a scheme similar to what you just did in the lower right, this time blocking the northern entrance.  Also, for extra firepower, place some hardpoints on the diagonal cliff overlooking the Point of Entry.  Use the small hill just SE of the Point of Entry (on the stage you had to clear it originally, this is where the enemy Command Post was situated) as your area to stage artillery pieces; the height and straight trajectory from there will make them quite accurate.

However, no matter how much you cram up here, it will not hold forever; so set up a 2nd "impenetrable wall" at your mid-base (the one 1/2way between the northern map edge and your main base.  I notice you have some stuff there now, but that won't last long).  2 walls should be enough to hold off them for 30 minutes; if you want some extra insurance, just make sure your main base as defenses along it's north.


C) The Air Assault
---The collective will be launching merciless numbers of planes for the whole half hour.  To counter this, you will want major AA batteries at the following locations:

1)  Behind the towers at your "2nd impenetrable wall".
2)  NE of your main base, where that lone oil derrick is (place some AA both at the derrick itself, and on top of the circular cliff's edge lining it)
3)  NW of your main base.  Again, both in the depression, and lining the top of the cliffs around it


Also, placing a few, scattered AA batteries at the following locations for insurance / softening up is a good idea:

1) In the Collective's Air Base at the NW map edge.  Scatter about 8 batteries along the whole base
2) East of your "2nd impenetrable wall".
3) Just north of your main base
4) Inside your main base.




Just remember this golden rule:  You will be taking 40 units with you, and you will get a fixed amount of resources when you land at the gamma stages.  You do NOT GET TO KEEP YOUR POWER from beta -> gamma.  So there is no such thing as "too much defense"; once you've got your 40 units ready (which probably won't even happen until the end of BETA when you get the Tiger body), then just spend every last dollar you have making defenses to block the opponents.


You should have had practice with this during Alpha 4 and Alpha 7; and you are going to need to know how to defense-overload come the 2nd to last gamma stage.  So get used to setting up "Doom Fortresses" now ;p.







P.S. This thread hasn't been "on topic" since March of LAST YEAR, so I doubt it's a problem.  But if you want, you can start a new thread ;p
astral
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by astral »

Haha, ok no probs. I'll reply with what happened then :

I still got wasted, but this time I actually lasted until my second transport arrived, then once my last unit had been killed the level ended. So luckily this time I had the stable version and things worked out well. I forgot to actually put trucks on to my transports, but after 10 mins in gamma they arrived in the 3rd transport, one of the one's where you get the units given. As for holding the base this time around : I just don't think I'm good enough at the game yet to do it. So if I finish and then try again, maybe I'll start using different tactics and do better with my power, but this time it ended up with me once again scraping through the last beta transport mission, but I had a better base at beta so I held out longer. I did have stacks of power at one point, but it just ended up fizzling out and I scraped through again, which as far as I can guess was down to me not using my attack forces properly, so a few of my armies got battered up too much through some levels.

I guess that's what makes the game so good though, because I'm sure I'll be back there at somepoint trying to do better, and knowing what I'm doing a lot more. For instance, my main assaults have almost always consisted of lancers, and that's been about it. Only lately have I figured out that I could assign my mortar and rocket launcher units to sensors, so that's been a big help, but there's still a lot of room to improve.

Cheers for setting out what you'd have done in that base defence though, I'm sure I'll come back to your post and check it out more if I either get back to this stage by playing again, or need a better defence in gamma somewhere. I'm just glad I made it back to gamma at the moment, it seems to have taken about a week or so.  ::)
themousemaster
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Re: Power Problems (In-game)

Post by themousemaster »

I should write a picture-loaded strategy guide at some point... though I'll have to play the new 2.1 version through first, wonder if multi-turrets make a difference ;p.

Anyway, a couple things for your gamma-playthrough:

--- Lancers (and rockets in general): they make good 1-shot weapons.  If you see a particularly tough enemy (like, a heavy body surrounded by mediums, or an enemy Command tank), unloading a rocket salvo and killing it is a very good way to do things.  However, using ONLY rockets means that they opponent will be firing mercilessly while you reload.  Mixing up rockets with cannons and guns will help alleviate this; like I said, Heavy Cannons have the highest body points of any weapon until the end of the gamma stages, and the Assault Gun (NOT the assault cannon) has a high rate of fire, making it perfect for mowing over cyborgs and, for the first few Gamma stages, enemy structures.  If you can get some assault guns quickly (and research the Tungsten tipped MG bullets in Gamma1 ASAP), the first gamma stages will be much easier.

--- Heavy bodies.  In multiplayer, they have limited usefulness due to their high cost; but in singleplayer, where you can spend whole stages letting your resources tick up, making an entire force of Heavies is the way to go.  Tiger bodies are about the only thing that can stand toe-to-toe with Nexus medium bodies (Nexus won't use heavy bodies against you until the stage after you get the best Rockets in the game).  If you find yourself unable to complete the gamma stages due to unit attrition, and have to go through again... just remember:  lots of heavy body units is the defacto best strat to use in the SP campaign.  Trust me ;p.

--- Command tanks:  Again, in MP they are of little use due to production costs and the big "shoot me" bullseye they seem to have with other human players; but vs the CPU, their imparted extra accuracy bonus, dodge bonus, and auto-repair-return-and-delivery point is of great use.  Have the command tank point at the target you want rocket'ed, and as soon as the rockets fly, have the command tank target whatever you want your MG's to shoot at.  It makes micro-managing a lot easier.  Also note, the range on the Commands tank's "laser" is longer than even your rockets, so they should be painting a target well out of range of said target's return fire.

--- Artillery:  Ripple Rockets (and their later variants) are NOT good uses of funds, at least in SP.  Their major advantage is range over the howitzers (their damage compared to the Groundshaker is similar compared to their re-fire rate), but once you pass the 2-screen mark, unless you have a direct cardinal-direction shot (N, E, S, or W) at the target, and preferably from higher gound, the rockets have a tendancy to miss, and then take forever to reload.  Howitzers (and to an extreme degree, Groundshakers) have a blast radius that make them ok at anti-vehicle, but insane against structures.  Like, REALLY insane.  And direct-hits vs vehicles still sting, for those times when they do connect against a moving target.

--- Artillery(2):  You noticed that you can attach artillery to sensors.  Are you using sensor tanks?  If so, stop.  A better plan is to have Trucks trailing your battle group, and have them build sensor TOWERS to attach your artillery to.  Place said tower right next to the repair bays that you build right behind your force right before you storm a location... and then place a couple token anti-vehicle structures around that (not so much to protect the sensor and repair bay, but to give the enemy something closer to fire at while your battle group deals with them).  Sensor towers, like all towers, take a while to shoot down, whereas sensor tanks are usually in pieces after 2 rounds.  DO NOT attach your indirect units to a Command Tank; let them have their own firing targets, since they are best suited to blowing up whole swathes of the enemy bases at once.

--- Artillery (3):  I'm guessing you already do this, but... attach your artillery units to your base's sensor tower when they are not out actively destroying things.  On Away missions, this is a good way to hold off the early enemy rushes while you prepare your own; a couple hardpoint towers with your Artillery units backing them up is good stuff, and once your battle group is done coming in, your artillery group is already in place to follow them.

--- Game Speed:  If your primary "but there's still a lot of room to improve" portion of this game is response time, then just use the '-' key to slow the game down during fights.  Similarly, if you are bored of waiting for the end of a stage while your cash builds, speed the game up after the only standing enemy structure is a sensor tower.  Just don't forget to keep doing your research while the clock ticks ;p.

--- Experience:  Unless changed for 2.1, your untis get experience for killing enemy WALLS.  You know how all those walls that automatically fall down when a base dies?  don't let them.  Let a non-combat structure remain standing while you gun up all the wall segments.  BAM!  Instant veterans.





***spoiler1***

--- If you do get to Gamma... err... I forget which one it is (I think 6), you will have the nasty surprise of Nexus STEALING your tanks from you.  Nothing like your Hero Rocket tank turning traitor and blowing up your command post...  The way to handle this stage is (since you've been milking each stage for all it's cash) is to build large quantities of base defense structures all over every outpost you have in Gamma4.  Preferably Assault Gun bunkers.  Cheap, and they tear each other up pretty fast... as such, you want to build them in squares of 4, so if one gets converted, the other 3 rip it apart.  And if a factory falls, the AG's will melt it in a hurry.  To save your unit's experience, once the stage begins, recycle ALL GROUND units EXCEPT TRUCKS (gotta rebuild after Nexus is done bing a bastard), and make sure your command tanks are RECYCLED LAST.  Air units seem to be off Nexus' radar, at least for me they always are, so you can use any bombers you have to stop the few Ground assaults Nexus brings in... but LEAVE their anti-air missle units.  Once you are done researching the "anti-capture" tech, rebuild your units (command tanks first).  Once your entire ground force is back in action, have them march over and destroy the anti-air units to end the stage.

***/spoiler1***


***spoiler2***

Have you done gamma2 yet?  The one where you stop the Nexus launch?  There's a twist to that one too... anything you send to that LZ will NOT be coming back for a few stages.  So another way to save your units from the Gamma6 debacle is to send them to Gamma2.  Specifically, I find sending my command tanks and artillery to that stage (along with some battle units, of course) prevents me from having to worry about them in Gamma6, and there's nothing you can't do without your artillery that your planes can'y between Gamma2 and Gamma6.  And once that "surprise" hits, you'll find that having your artillery tanks with you makes that stage a LOT less aggrivating.  PROTIP:  save before starting Gamma2, as a little knowledge about what happens goes a long way in choosing what to send, before you save afterwards and it's too late.

***/spoiler2***