win condition

[kage]

having read some posts in the recently resurrected and subsequently slain thread "flying trucks", and specifically watermelon's comment at ?topic=481.msg3934#msg3934, i propose that we change the win condition to be far less tedious for players (since, let's face it, having to find that last bunker or unit, especially if that player wants to lose as dishonorably as possible, is not the way to treat your loyal gamers).

Instead, I propose the following game mechanics that should alleviate this problem:

• if one player loses all their trucks, and loses the ability to produce trucks, they will be marked as a loser when the game completes
• at any time, when there is only one team that has trucks or the ability to produce trucks, a host-adjustable (adjustable only while in game setup) timer begins to count down, during which time any players with remaining units may attempt to destroy the last "winning" team. when the timer expires:
  • if no players have trucks or are able to produce trucks, then all players without combat units (remaining defensive structures don't count towards this, nor do repair trucks, sensors, etc) are marked as having lost, and all other teams are marked as having tied
  • if one player (or multiple players on the same unbreakable team) still has trucks or the capability to produce them, that player (and the players on that unbreakable team that still have at least one combat unit) are marked as winners, and everyone else is marked as a loser
• addendum: just in case one player is trying to hide a truck on an 8 player map to be evil, whenever a player loses all their base structures, their energy continues draining until they build both a power generator and an oil derrick. When their energy reaches zero, they lose their trucks.

The above timer would probably be best set at 5 minutes, but could be set to 0 seconds, for an instant win if you destroy all enemy base structures and trucks.

[psychopompos]

that one remaining unit thing is why i suggested the last few enemy units become waypointed.
i guess the same could be applied to structs?

a countdown till death when no trucks or factories sounds good too.
remove allot of frustration.

[DevUrandom]

Afaik in MP games you can get resupplied with trucks by a friendly opponent who transfers them...

[Per]

I am not against changing the victory condition, but it has to be simple and intuitive. I am afraid the one suggested in the first post is not.

[EvilGuru]

Afaik in MP games you can get resupplied with trucks by a friendly opponent who transfers them...

Or steal them with a NEXUS link tower/turret.

Regards, Freddie.

[psychopompos]

Or steal them with a NEXUS link tower/turret.

Regards, Freddie.

that being how to stop/reset the timer?

[doom3r]

I would suggest reset, since you're not in danger anymore (maybe  )

[kage]

I am not against changing the victory condition, but it has to be simple and intuitive. I am afraid the one suggested in the first post is not.

i completely agree. while i was writing it, i was thinking there'd be a lot of players wondering "what's happening to me... haxxors!"

for a game like this, i don't think both any solution to this issue can be both highly intuitive and satisfying. hmmmm... how about a simplification:

as soon as a given player loses their last power generator, their energy starts draining, and as soon as it reaches zero, all trucks (and other builders) for that player are waypointed (with the victory condition being: destroy all builders and base structures).

** for games that start without bases, they must build a power generator and then lose it before they start losing power.

[DevUrandom]

Or: When you loose all trucks a countdown starts after which Nexus' orbital strike kills you...

[EvilGuru]

Actually the game is very kind to losers.

If you do not have a power generator, but the capacity to build one the game will give you enough power to build one.

There was also (commented) code to give players with no trucks a truck. Apparently it was commented as it was to complex (not because they disliked the idea).

Regards, Freddie.

[Deus Siddis]

Actually the game is very kind to losers.
If you do not have a power generator, but the capacity to build one the game will give you enough power to build one.
There was also (commented) code to give players with no trucks a truck. Apparently it was commented as it was to complex (not because they disliked the idea).

I for one would really prefer this softer approach. If you can't seem to get your act together enough to really finish someone off, then they should get another chance at making a slow comeback. The game is not over until it is over, basically.

If hunting down that last cyborg really is a problem for a timely game conclusion though, how about just making all the defensive structures and combat units of a particular side become visible if their infrastructure gets completely leveled?

[EvilGuru]

If hunting down that last cyborg really is a problem for a timely game conclusion though, how about just making all the defensive structures and combat units of a particular side become visible if their infrastructure gets completely leveled?

How do you define ones infrastructure being completely level in non-abstract (absolute) terms?

A better question: is this actually a problem? Currently it seems to be a perceived problem. I would be interested to hear from some regular MP players about this.

It is a bit like discussing how to destroy/deflect a asteroid which isn't on a collision course.

Regards, Freddie.

[DevUrandom]

A better question: is this actually a problem? Currently it seems to be a perceived problem. I would be interested to hear from some regular MP players about this.

I think this was not meant to be a MP problem, but a compaign problem. In campaign there are mission timers, which can make finding the last lonesome cyborg an annoying task, especially if you have to do it on every map.

[EvilGuru]

In single player, very little of what has been proposed will work. This is due to the large role scripts have (they are in control) as opposed to standard winning conditions.

Regards, Freddie.

[NucNut]

Well, if you wanted to make the multiplayer games...different i propose the following:

A flying truck. This is actually a single-player sized transport that moves very slowly to a build area, then either drops a pre-fab building, or a foundation and a small build unit that is consumed during construction (think an airship dropping a command and conquuer style mobile construction vehicle). Or works the same as a 1.11 vtol truck, except its larger, heavier, slower, and weaker, that way it would only be useful in improving your area behind the front lines

If you want to run a different stlye of multiplayer game, set a time-limit on the game, say 2hrs. When a player looses all their trucks, a new truck is dropped from orbit back at a place of the players choosing. that way, you can keep the game going. Also, to make it more challenging, each player could only have a few air-dropped trucks, so once they loose them all, they loose. at the end of the time limit, the highest score player wins.

Also, you could also make a game where each player has to protect a certain structure, and if its lost, they loose the game.

These ideas may be dumb/stupid/brilliant/tooHardToCode (take your pick), but im just throwing them into the pile for your consideration....