Some more cyborgs

[nick87720z]

Super repairer - using heavy repair turret, may be available as soon as heavy repair turret is explored.
Super engineer - with higher build/repair speed.
Scout / Target designator - what if cyborg will wear some radar . By cyborg tradition it should target both ground and air targets.
Hotwitzer cyborg / super grenadier - with weapon more like hotwitzer, but weaker - based on middle or hyper-velocity cannon (both by damage and sound)
Super bomber ( bomberman ) - using either bombard or real heavy bomb with very low range but expected damage... some kind of diversion unit.
Diversant - getting as close to target as truck and installing some package, activated by timer. When activated, should detroy completely almost any structure (such as factory, generator, command center), making good splash damage (with radius like plasmite bomb). May be deinstalled by both repairing of build units before time exceeds. More advanced package versions may need help of synaptic link tower to break this device. Probably could have same model of interaction with target as truck, wasting some progress to install package - with exception, that each unit installs own, not helping to others.

[Hesterax]

Not bad. Would take a lot of time to add these in the game though.
Also, I would prefer it if the diversant was more of a suicide bomber instead, exploding on contact of the selected target.

[nick87720z]

Yeah, about suicide - is it to avoid infinite package number, right? Is it possible at all for ground units to have limited ammo? In this case light version may carry only one explosive, while super version may carry a bit more (2 - 3) or just i much heavier device. I'm not sure, how to implement rearming of ground units, but in _this_ case they could be at least utilized. Probably, rearming may be done automatically by contact with some factory.

Yet some notes. After researching of CB technology what if to automatically add such feature to scout?
And what about additional researchable feature for 2-weapon cyborgs? As for engineers, they have halves of truck tools, mounted on place of each arm. All other cyborgs may be essentially 2-turret. Of course, due to number of possible combinations, this may need in-game support for cyborg design.

2-armed cyborgs could wear some thick shield, acting like tank's or super cyborg (for begining cyborg) variant. Should be especially useful against flamer, since it may just stop flame beam. Or at least make it much weaker.
- Combining single shield with single repair turret should allow to repair own shield.
- Shield should protect only in proper direction (smoothly degrading from max on cyborgs aim direction to zero from 70-90° and all back, and penetratable only from side. To defend against some enemy, it is enough for it to target that unit, thus always facing it.
- Not sure about defence against magnet accelerating weapon, but could it be even stronger than for tank? (i have a proposal for penetrating weapon)
- Some advanced shield version probably could reflect lasers and even EMP impulses. Second may be possible only assuming that EMP strike is focused ray rather than wave front. About first i'm not sure at all - is it possible even to reflect such powerful rays (may be only for regular lasers, not heavy variants). Angle reflector, which is most expected for such case, could reflect better if ray falls to each segment under 45°, implying better reflection ratio than for plain mirror, and it essentially should have good cooling system - probably be comparable with laser by complexity and even use similar technologies. Btw, also have proposal about EM.

[Hesterax]

Yeah, about suicide - is it to avoid infinite package number, right? Is it possible at all for ground units to have limited ammo? In this case light version may carry only one explosive, while super version may carry a bit more (2 - 3) or just i much heavier device. I'm not sure, how to implement rearming of ground units, but in _this_ case they could be at least utilized. Probably, rearming may be done automatically by contact with some factory.

Yet some notes. After researching of CB technology what if to automatically add such feature to scout?
And what about additional researchable feature for 2-weapon cyborgs? As for engineers, they have halves of truck tools, mounted on place of each arm. All other cyborgs may be essentially 2-turret. Of course, due to number of possible combinations, this may need in-game support for cyborg design.

2-armed cyborgs could wear some thick shield, acting like tank's or super cyborg (for begining cyborg) variant. Should be especially useful against flamer, since it may just stop flame beam. Or at least make it much weaker.
- Combining single shield with single repair turret should allow to repair own shield.
- Shield should protect only in proper direction (smoothly degrading from max on cyborgs aim direction to zero from 70-90° and all back, and penetratable only from side. To defend against some enemy, it is enough for it to target that unit, thus always facing it.
- Not sure about defence against magnet accelerating weapon, but could it be even stronger than for tank? (i have a proposal for penetrating weapon)
- Some advanced shield version probably could reflect lasers and even EMP impulses. Second may be possible only assuming that EMP strike is focused ray rather than wave front. About first i'm not sure at all - is it possible even to reflect such powerful rays (may be only for regular lasers, not heavy variants). Angle reflector, which is most expected for such case, could reflect better if ray falls to each segment under 45°, implying better reflection ratio than for plain mirror, and it essentially should have good cooling system - probably be comparable with laser by complexity and even use similar technologies. Btw, also have proposal about EM.

Even though the shield idea seems reasonable and well thought of I have an objection; weakening the effect of flamers on cyborgs would just make it much harder than it already is to destroy or counter them. One of the main reasons players use flamers are to counter cyborgs.

I also think that the amount of packages could be increased by researching upgrades instead of researching new diversant units.

Lastly, even though I generally don't like this phrase I should say; easier said than done.

[Rman Virgil]

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A few years back, Berg (& mates) WZGM Project implemented Unit Shields:

http://wzgraphicmods.sourceforge.net/jo ... &Itemid=29
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[nick87720z]

weakening the effect of flamers on cyborgs would just make it much harder than it already is to destroy or counter them. One of the main reasons players use flamers are to counter cyborgs.

Effective only in some directions. And as i already proposed, not against EM (only if EM is supposed to be electromagnetic radiation with enough short wave length to be blocked by such shield). And any damage should be blocked only under certain angles.
- With another feature, when harder unit - at least tank breaks order by own hull this may be not a problem.
- Incendiary weapon should easily solve this situation, though shield carrier still could defend self at least from direct contact with flame either by targeting bomber or (against artillery) in order of CB defence (of course, not only incendiary).

In short, such shield may give at least some chance, but not too much. Yet for some better balance too hard hit to shield (with heavy cannon or artillery) should termporarily disable it due to compensation by hand.

http://wzgraphicmods.sourceforge.net/jo ... &Itemid=29

This is force field. As for it, additionaly it could be penetratable for flamer, since flame there is supposed to be gas based. Or at least be less effective. But very effective against plasmite (though some heat, could reach target by air and slightly colded gas, which is neutralized plasma)

And yet about diversion. I don't think, that it is necessary to have special unit type for that, since installation of package to structure is more a build process, and trucks could do it by upgrading enemy structure. One possible restriction:
- Packages should detonate only when truck reaches some distance from mined structure. Or (not sure in what way) start timer (5..10 sec). In this way it could install multiple packages at once. Of course, if enemy trucks don't remove them parallely .

[Rman Virgil]

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So you were talking a physical shield like Captain America's and not an energy shield (aka, force field) ? Never heard that proposed before. Honestly, I don't see that ever making it into core WZ. However, thinking way outside the box, I can envision a very fun Marvelous Mod using Jorzi's Toon Tile set (maybe even nic some stuff from the DC universe, like a home made Scavy Tumbler). I would even go so far as to say that such a Marvelous Mod could give the already highly deved Hello Kitty Mod a run for its money in over-the-top popularity. Truely. I kid you not. Might even come to rival NTW style of play.
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[Hesterax]

I thought he was talking about a one sided energy shield, similar to a force field. Limiting the degrees of the shield could add a world more of strategy to come but it also could add a world more to micromanagement with all the manually controlling the units direction and the way they are facing, in order to reduce the damage.

[Rman Virgil]

I thought he was talking about a one sided energy shield, similar to a force field. Limiting the degrees of the shield could add a world more of strategy to come but it also could add a world more to micromanagement with all the manually controlling the units direction and the way they are facing, in order to reduce the damage.

That makes more sense than a physical shield. WSGM project has those but like for shield fences wereas the unit shields are 360 degrees, I believe. Now I get the dif. My bad for misunderstanding. Besides implementing such, there is another issue. Combat group maneuver command and control is not effectively granular enough at present, imho, to make this a deeper fun challenge than just adding another layer of frustrating microing. Those command and control issues are bit more complex to address but worth addressing when all the core component source changes are in place to facilitate the solution. One of the 4 components is well on its way. Need at l least one more of the remaining 3 deved to proceed.

I could certainly wrong in my assessment.

However, were I think I'm spot on is that somethings make sense being deved directly into the core source and this is not one of those. This falls to creating a mod first and testing exhaustively its viability before even enertaining core integration. Many of the ideas offered in this bb fall under this later process, I think. Most fail to understand this distinction. While I'm at, let me mention that there is not only a shortage of dev manpower but also one related to exhaustive, and competent, MP playtesting. While learning how to code is beyond the scope of most fans, the quality playtesting is not.
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[Hesterax]

I added everything up and, correct me if I'm wrong, there are about 55 people in all the Warzone 2100 and I doubt half of them are using their accounts now. There where people who came multiple times in different groups but I counted them as one. I'm obviously not counting the large number who suggested and also contributed but never made it to the list.

Mind you, that isn't much people at all.

[Rman Virgil]

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That sounds about right.

Two other metrics of value to look at, I think, are monthly unique IP visits and dls of new binary releases. These would give a sense of the total audience base and the percentage that choose no further engagement. From that percentage would naturally arise a set of questions. But we are moving afield the topic. With a nod of respect to this threads author, I'm gonna leave it there. It's a subject that merits its own thread, in truth. In fact, I do believe the thread on "Forum Activity" dovetails neatly with this tangent and can accomodate further discussion that would be OT in this thread. Here's the link to that other thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11626&p=127589#p127589

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