[Campaign 4] Release & Development topic

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Goth Zagog-Thou
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

In testing the new Research implementation it occurs to me that things are happening a little too quickly now. If one researches sensors, we're all the way up to Uplink Centre within 20 minutes of game start. We're up to the full Research upgrades by 35 minutes. Plasteel structures within 20.

So perhaps I've isolated a bit too much. It's supposed to be fluid -- one thing enables another two or three things, etc. Right now it's not interconnected enough.

What I plan to do (once I get all the weapon paths scripted in) is put Research, Power, Factory, Walls, and Engineering into the same research line. Then we'll get our upgrades (weapon, bodies, repair, etc) from that line.

I'll have to implement checks to keep things reeled in, of course. You have to research bodies to get better ones, of course -- but at the appropriate factory upgrade levels.

Interesting problem, is it not? :D
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Rman Virgil
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Brings to mind a couple questions.

At which Mission # do you build your first base and start choosing your Research path ? Will artifact recovery drive it or some other mechanic(s) ?
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

That depends. The player will be building a base during M5 for certain. I have, however, scripted in a way to build far sooner than that if the player completes a certain series of difficult events in an equally difficult-to-achieve timespan during M1 ... or more specifically, before M1. It's not easy to do, but the rewards for initiative are great ... :D

Artifact recovery does not drive research here. The Contingency technologies are given to the player by the locals to defeat NEXUS and the Red Alphas. The story reflects this. The driving force is survival. :)
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

I should note that the act of saving Transports One and Two are "off-mission" and "off-story". The player, upon completing this hub, is "rewarded" by being presented with a nearly-impossible-to-win scenario -- building a base while NEXUS is bringing all his might to bear upon them, turning the situation around, and finally launching a counterattack upon NEXUS Prime. In the testing and tuning thus far, It's proven to be a very worthy challenge for those players who perhaps may feel ... confident ... in their ability to "Compstomp". :)
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Replay value to Nth degree ! Cool. XD

In that impossible-to-win scenario, if you do succeed in building that base while Nexus Prime is bringing all its might to bare, will that player state carry over to a branching mission sequence or would that be the culmination of the CAM ?

Which brings to mind the stock "Mission Failed" and instead of that a "Postal Enemy Assault" - Player goes down fighting and gameplay is not just "switched off"... :hmm:
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

Now's the time to decide that. :) There's no reason why "Mission Failed" (as such -- losing the Commander AND Gibbs) should be the end. It's simply arbitrary on my part. The win/lose conditions are easily changed as the community sees fit.

The only reason it is as it currently is is because I've been the only one writing the story thus far. I've always asked for the community to chime in with ideas, be they good or bad -- because bad ideas can always be fine-tuned into good ideas -- at any time. The community is in charge here, and I'm simply the person implementing it.
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

And to answer the first part of your post -- anything the player does will indeed carry over into M12+ (the real NEXUS Prime). Transports, reinforcements, research completed, everything. We still have access to Delta Base and its' facilities.
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Replacing ''Mission Failed" and game terminating with a "Postal A.I." is only to suggest the player go down fighting ... and nothing more. No change to victory conditions and no alternative branching. Just go down fighting and not just switching off the game. You still are defeated... by the a.i. wipeing you off the map. The end screen can read - "The Enemy has Triumphed". Just a thought.
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Rman Virgil »

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Thought of one objection: If it's hopeless, what's the point ?

Then I thought - invoking sudden fear.... run baby run, see more of the map.... plus, the player has the choice to opt out, none of which exists under the stock mechanic. Next question: are these differences worth it ? :hmm:
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Goth Zagog-Thou
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

All doable.

Should the above be considered a feature request? :D
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Rman Virgil »

Goth Zagog-Thou wrote:All doable.

Should the above be considered a feature request? :D
Honestly Goth, I have nothing in gaming I can point to that can speak to it being a viable mechanic. It's only a thought and it could very well be flawed.

In RL I could point to battles where the experience took place that we are suggesting here to create. Like The Alamo or the Spartans at Thermopylae. But is that viable in a game ? Or do you always have to provide an out, even if the odds are 100 to 1 that you'll discover that one way to overcome the impossible odds against you ?

I dunno the answers to those questions. To do the work to discover those answers could be in vain... and that I cannot ask.
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Rman Virgil »

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I thought a little more on my last post.

I have a few favorite missions in the original CAM. Top of the short list is the beginning of the last sequence. I think it is Pumpkin's most creative and deeply insightful bit of scripting. It also falls apart at the very end, as if they ran out of time or inspiration. But for the purposes of this conversation it is the breath taking beginning that matters.

You are in very tight quarters. So cramped you are constantly making decisions between defensive structures and structs to build an army. For the longest time you are pinned down by mobile enemy forces coming at you from 3 vectors plus long range arty. Nexus is also controlling air space by Pumpkin's cleverly concealed in cliff face, heat seeking AA. For the longest time you struggle not only with holding on and resisting Nexus' continuous onslaught and obvious supremacy but also within yourself you are battling a creeping sense of hopelessness that somehow never develops into a full blown frustration because deep inside you believe there has to be a way out. You are, in a gamer sense, trusting that through persistence you will discover the right sequence of decisions that will allow you to get the greater foothold you so desperately need to even have a chance of prevailing. That trust is an undeclared covenant with the game's designers that they will not present you with a truly hopeless condition you have to deal with like can happen on a RL battlefield... or in MP ! :lol:

In sum, this alternate proposition to the conventional "Mission Failed" and abrupt termination of game while you still have fighting forces and a fighting will, is high risk because it would violate that trust and unspoken covenant that there is at least one way out, however remote, however overwhelming the odds obviously stacked against you, if only you persist, if only you resist, if only you hold back the growing sense of fear and hopelessness. Hope against hope is not assured triumph in RL battles but perhaps in a game's CAM construct the best design goal is maintaining the longest sense of "triumph in the balance" from mission to mission and not chance violating the covenant by providing absolutely no way out of a postal a.i. onslaught but replaying the mission from jump. :hmm:

After all, a game boils down to a voluntary effort to overcome unnecessary obstacles. Like any fiction, RL verisimilitude is invoked but always an entertainment first and foremost. :3

Hope I haven't mucked-up the waters here with this extended mulling over aloud. O_o

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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

Nicely stated. :)

Indeed that's the very crux of the "Onslaught" NEXUS attack event that the player faces if saving both Transports and both Sergeants (Wilkes and Gibbs). NEXUS forces pushing the player into a corner where the player needs to choose between fight or flight. The player persevering and eventually turning things around.

What your idea implies to me, from a gameplay point of view, is that we offer the player a "way out" if something happens to the command units (Wilkes, Gibbs and the Commander). I do have a replacement Tac Sergeant already in the templates along with a Rescue Force (including Construction Droids) that can arrive anytime. What if we were to do the following:

a) Commander, Gibbs and Wilkes have all been eliminated. NEXUS calls off the Assault, having been victorious.

b) The Rescue Team enters the zone. The player is given control of these forces, with instructions to quietly set up shop. The Coalition forces in the area advise the Rescue Team that they, in fact, were the ones who had called for assistance on behalf of Team One because the battle had gone very badly. NEXUS could not be allowed to continue operating, and the Project was the best group to deal with Dr. Reed and NEXUS.

c) With information in hand (and a nice quiet sector to set up Delta Base), the player can then prepare for whatever needs to happen without interference (and we can send the player to M4's area to begin operations there).

Or, we can simply have the player lose like before and simply try again. :)
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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Rman Virgil »

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What you're doing spurs me to dig deeper, questioning my assumptions upon which rest what I think I have a basic understanding of. In the process, exposing my hardwired tendencies to confirmation bias and selective exposure, the bane of making fresh discoveries. I much appreciate that. :)

Interesting "out" you're suggesting. :hmm:

Let me see first if I understand it by restating steps (a.) & (b.).

- The player will be given control of a Rescue Team at some time after (how this time interval plays out can be an opportunity to create a dramatic turn for the Player to experience) the NEXUS Postal A.I. is triggered by the Player not fulfilling the original set of victory conditions and having lost the entirety of his initial command in that postal onslaught ?

I think this could work with the following made clear to the Player (by way of a splash text screen ?) as the fork in the road command decision the Player must make to proceed with the mission.

* You can replay the mission to attempt to preserve your initial command and all their Experience Boons..... OR...

* You can continue the mission by taking control of the incoming Rescue Team with ZERO experience boons.
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I also have thoughts on you're (c.) proposal but they can stand apart from first sorting through the (a.) & (b.) steps above, so we'll save those for a l8r posting. :3

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Impact = C x (R + E + A + T + E)

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Re: [Campaign 4] Development topic

Post by Goth Zagog-Thou »

There's another alternative that I've just thought of that would tie up all of this very nicely ...

What if, instead of "destroy", the objective of the Onslaught is "assimilate" the player forces -- and the Rescue Team actually has a clear-cut purpose? :D

Let's say that the Coalition fixes their equipment just as NEXUS uses the Synaptic Link and Synaptic Override technology upon the unprepared player forces. After all, that's what happened to the Red Alphas. The Coalition forces have a countermeasure, but can't deploy it. So, they contact the Project HQ (now that they are able to) and let them know what happened -- that NEXUS is in Alaska, and Teams One and Two put up a good fight but suffered the same fate as the Collective and the Red Alphas -- and to please send help. Since the AA Lasers that brought down Transports One and Two have been destroyed, the flight corridor is clear.

Now the Rescue Team has a purpose -- and most of the information they need to proceed without suffering the same fate as Gibbs, Wilkes and the others. The mission will now become one of "retrieval" -- namely, rescuing Gibbs, Wilkes and the others.

What do you think, Rman? :)