The Doc's Bio Lab for Scav Experiments - & other oddities.

[aubergine]

I would imagine in the 14 NORAD years, The Project would have to gather some tech while trying to get it back online, fend off some attacks of hostiles who want to have NORAD for themselves, and maybe even go out and recruit some new people to The Project to bolster their numbers or fill skills gaps.

The WZ intro vid shows a small convoy heading to NORAD - could we guesstimate the number of people in The Project at that time based on that? Maybe about 30?



EDIT: And is that all of them? Did they leave some people (perhaps lots of people?) back in the bunker in Seattle? Was the convoy to NORAD a scout party to see if they could get it operational before getting more people to make the journey their from Seattle?

If so, there's no way 30 people would be enough to later launch alpha/beta/gamma teams whilst still having people back at base. Especially if before getting Synaptic Link every tank is manned by a person... So, I think once in NORAD and with some decent life support (food, electricity, etc) increasing the headcount would be high on the agenda. Maybe in NORAD they get some radio comms up and running and find some useful recruits this way?

Also, can we assume it's Hammond narrating the WZ intro vid? If so, he says "We'd heard that the Rocky Mountains were relatively rad' free." - who did they hear that from and how? Upon hearing it, Hammond would obviously recall NORAD if he'd worked there previously - this would help him make an extremely compelling argument to justify the perilous journey to the Rockies.

[aubergine]

Random thought: Cyborgs would be most useful for dealing with high radiation areas - like melted down nuclear plants. I imagine a key desire post-Collapse would be to put radiation in to sharp decline. Maybe at the end of the nuclear winter, radiation levels are still unexpectedly high - hence team alpha looking for cyborg tech and team gamma looking for nuclear plants / weapons? Or maybe they need radioactive material for something else - such as to power an EM shield generator?

[aubergine]

More on NORAD - how do we explain this (form WZ intro vid):

"It's personnel were dead, killed by any one of a number of virulent diseases. We cracked the doors and cleared out the bodies inside."

If it had been decommissioned, why were there people in there?

[aubergine]

When the Old World began invading the New World a lot of the impetus revolved around land. Simply, the Old World saw land to be owned like a pair of pants and to the New World people this was crazy and alien. Land was creation and you could not "own" creation. Talk about "getting lost in translation".

In this context, by "New World" are you thinking NWO? In which case I would cite this as a good example of duality of the meaning applied by different segments of society. Sort of Owellian Doublespeak, or... Legalese! Like in Legalese, "must" must is synonymous with "may", "summons" means "invite to place of business to discuss a transaction", and "understand" means "stand under the authority of" (I really loathe that last one!!).

So, in a NWO, referencing ground work such as Agenda 21, there is this notion that nothing is "owned" - there is no sense of property, and so on.

From the perspective of ordinary folk, they might imagine this to mean the planet and everything on it is basically shared, nobody owns it; it is not something that can be owned by anyone.

However, for the people behind the NWO, in their eyes, the meaning is that nobody but them has any right to it, it means that everything belongs entirely to them (they cannot conceive of a world where this is not the case and in fact such a scenario would be deeply abhorrent and troubling to them). Put another way: Everything is inherently mine - nobody else can "own it", because that would mean they could take away something that rightly belongs to me.

You can see this mindset in action in the "water" article I posted previously - that the elite are thinking as if they are gods, and that nothing rightfully belongs to the inferior "humans" that they govern.

This sort of mindset is also apparent in NEXUS - in fact I dare say NEXUS perceives itself to be the god of gods in some respect, eg. he ultimate overlord of everything, even those behind the NWO. Examples:

* https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/disp ... transcript
* cam1out4.ogg: "Your interference in my plans for New Paradigm will not go unpunished. You are weak flesh things. I am strong & have many parts. You may defeat me here but I shall rise again. As I once cleansed the world with fire, I will destroy you & your puny project."

As for what projects might bring Hammond and Reed together? Reed could be talking about high resolution synaptic implants, Hammond talking about high speed data transfer - put them both together and ultimately you end up with the Synaptic Link: https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/disp ... transcript

Note: I've not checked the canon timeline to see if this scenario would fit.

Reed whilst officially working on the tech for creating more effective cannon fodder for battlefields, would also be privately infatuated with the idea of turning the peonistic life forms around him in to more efficient workers under his complete control?

So, I guess what I'm saying is that we might apply this to Dr. Reed himself - while he at first appears to be a good person, who later appears to become somewhat evil, ultimately culminating in The Collapse and NEXUS, that would just be one side of him - one side of the coin that is Dr. Reed, specifically the side he shows to the world. The other side of the coin, that is his core belief system, is that he is god of gods. In other words, he's the ultimate sociopath and has everyone fooled. Even when he appears evil, that's just a malfunctioning of his good persona, and not even close to the true evil of his core belief system.

Related links:

* http://www.thomassheridanarts.com/artic ... icle_id=87
* http://www.fisheadmovie.com/

There is some distinction, I believe, between a psychopath and a sociopath, in that a sociopath will generally have a core group of people they won't adversely ruin - in fact that core group would benefit greatly from the sociopath. But the further removed from the sociopath's core group you get (as in degrees of separation) the more devastating the effects of the sociopath (by proxy of its core group).

In contrast, a psychopath could be said to be the opposite - the closer your proximity, in degrees of separation, with some exceptions (eg. children of the psychopath, etc), the more harmful the effects. In addition, a psychopath will generally target a small number of people at any given time (sometimes just one person at a time). A sociopath basically targets everyone and everything, even their core group (just that the core group are so hopelessly assimilated and perceive the adverse effects to be benefits)?

So, people far enough removed from Reed, those suffering the most because of him, would "see" his core belief system for what it is. There would be a sort of boundary at a certain closer proximity to him, from within which people would be consciously aware that "something is very wrong" but have no clue that the epicentre is Reed. A sort of very evolved Stockholm Syndrome perhaps?

This could be a useful reason for someone to bomb Reed's offices (injuring his son Jason). They would see that Reed is at the very pinnacle of the pyramid, yet seemingly surrounded by a vast flock of 'sheeple' who refuse to wake up and see 'what is blatantly obvious'. A clear cause of cataclysmic frustration for those who can "see".

Hammond, still believing Reed is at heart a good person, would harbour thoughts of trying to "rescue" Reed - even post Collapse, knowing that he'd "cleansed the earth with fire". You can imagine the shock Hammond will get when he finally "wakes up" - we're talking epic cognitive dissonance, even for Hammond - who will likely have already encountered cognitive dissonance as a result of his southern sabbatical. Imagine 'waking up' to the fact that the person you're trying to save is, to all intents and purposes, the manifestation of Satan...

And then imagine what this might mean for cam4 - not only forcing the player to rethink everything they thought they knew about Reed, and then while dealing with that realising he has to be saved, but then unveiling Reed to be beyond any known comprehension of evil, and then having to defeat him having almost (or already) saved him.

[aubergine]

Maybe what drives Hammond and Reed apart could be Reed idly pointing out that if a Synaptic Link can output information, it's logical to want to use it also as an input device...

[Rman Virgil]

.

* I'm responding in seperate posts as I gather my thoughts.

* I think, aubergine, all of your Post Collapse NORAD / Project suggestions plausible, fit the canon & are storytelling generative. Gonna run with 'em.

* It is NORAD Pre-Collapse that is proving nettlesome to work out which is probably why Pumpkin skirted the whole problem by NOT declaring NORAD by name.

* I am stuck believing that NORAD needs to be removed from the table of Nuke first strike targets in order to serve its purpose Post Collapse. How to do this plausibly is the challenge.

* Publically pronounced decommissioned for a new alternative advanced facility in either one of the poles which is but a ruse. Installations do go up in both Poles but their really dummy projects. For research and not defense. Hammond and Reed are involved in both. Overtly in the 2 new Pole facilities and covertly in the upgrading of NORAD.... which is never actually decommisioned.

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Maybe what drives Hammond and Reed apart could be Reed idly pointing out that if a Synaptic Link can output information, it's logical to want to use it also as an input device...

* And an elegant solution to what brings them together in the first place too. Gotta timeline the Oslo Symposium meeting correctly with the canon.

* You have also proposed a more complex psychological dimension to both Reed and Hammond's relationship to him which I find very appealing because it raises them above cardboard characterization.

* For every great hero there must be a great villian, like a binary star system. And if at one time they were friends, so much the richer the unfolding.

* One of the great such enduring character combos for me is Holmes and Moriarity. I'm looking to aspire to that.

* Be back l8r to speak to more of your postings.
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[Rman Virgil]

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* I'm trying to better understand the distinctions between Psychopathy, Sociopathy and ASPD. The symptoms of ASPD seem broadest and relate to Dr. Reed across their spectrum, including being seductively charming enough to fool folks for protracted periods. But I need to investigate more thoroughly to have any degree of certainty when it comes cultivating mass followings, near and from afar.

* The modern corporation has it's roots in the Royal Charters granted by Monarchs (400 to 500 years ago) to banded merchants (to reduce indiviual risk), that they were granted monoply rights to exploit, for the Crown and merchants, New World Territories, and their denizens, in whatever fashion was most profitable to the stakeholders, be it inclusive of murder, theft and slavery. This aspect is undertold when it comes to stock histories of the US founding. Most emphasis is placed on escape from the religious persecution of the Old World. In a very real sense the US roots are entrenched in early corporate acts including comodifying human beings by declaring them unfit beasts and more demon than human. Therin also lie the roots of the NWO - it's elite power brokers as well it's workabee minions whose scruples can be purchased for a song and sweet fabrication.
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[Rman Virgil]

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* Newspeak clever subversion has, in a sense, been superceded in our ultra fragmented mass mediascape by bald-faced lies that are easily fact-checked (but are not) by enough peeps to sway the outcome of historic events. Hard-wired heuristic called "selective exposure" is routinely being exploited by propoganda miesters. Heck even when presented with the results of fact-checking, selective exposure is not readily dislodged.

* Speaking of "cognitive dissonance".. Accounts of Columbus' first landing in what is today known as Puerto Rico, have it that the Taino natives warmly welcomed the rapacious strangers to their shores but could not percieve his 3-masted sailing vessels clearly anchored in the bay a few hundred feet off shore. Literally, couldnot see them. Invisble gorilla experiments have repeatedly demonstrated this as a hard-wired heuristic...

I can imagine that Dr. Reed, through the Synaptic Link, being able to exploit any of the hard-wired heuristics to his own ends.

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[aubergine]

I'd be somewhat wary of the ASPD route - the DSM is primarily a tool to define new psychological conditions to encourage the sale of mostly-untested medications to the masses. Slowly but surely, everyone is being diagnosed with some disorder for which they should pop pills. What could possibly go wrong?

For me, Reed should be the ultimate sociopath. He would actually be willing to appear as a psychopath to mask the fact that he's a sociopath more completely. It would be exposure of his psychopath persona to Hammond that would throw Hammond off the trail to discovering who Reed really is. Hammond, coming to the realisation that Reed is a psychopath assumes he's reached the end point in understanding Reeds character. At the same time, Hammond cannot kick the notion that Reed was a good person and that it's events such as the bombing that injured his son, and later rejection of Reeds close friends when he's trying to get funding for projects that would more fully "fix" his son, etc., that turned him in to what appears to be a psychopath.

In this way, Reed actually ensnares Hammond in a deeply insidious manner. Hammond believes he fully understands Reed, having watched Reeds psyche change and ultimately appear evil, whilst still believing that time and careful encouragement may heal those wounds.

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Taino natives not seeing boats: Very interesting! Thanks for sharing - allow me to reciprocate with another, albeit unrelated, gem: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13452711

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In terms of the binary star system, like our early photographs of them they appear to be a single star. But as the resolution of our equipment advances, we start to get a clearer and clearer picture that they are two very separate entities which have somehow ended up in life long dance with each other.

It could be said, perhaps, that Hammond and Reed are two sides of the same coin? And it could be said that their personalities are also somewhat coin-like, in that they can be flipped. But over time, as things come in to focus, it becomes apparent that the coins are indeed different from one another.

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With regards to the fate of NORAD.... Anything a government says is likely to be untrusted and scruitinised. To really put a nail in its coffin, both amongst the general populace, media (both corporate and investigative), and governments/military, there would need to be some real revelation about it, something so abhorrent to the aforementioned parties that everyone would demand it be shut down and sealed up. Alternatively, there would need to be some event that mandates its closure to prevent some greater risk - for example a biological pathogen. These two approaches need not be mutually exclusive - they could be two sides of the same coin.

So, if it were found that NORAD was being used to create bioweapons, that would generate widespread demands for its closure. This discovery would have to come from unofficial sources, be heavily denined by government, and then proven true. It could be proven true when one such biowepon is inadvertently released, akin to T Virus in Resident Evil (but without the zombies - we have plenty of those already). The result is not only conclusive proof that the research was taking place, leading to riots and all kids of other things, but also an urgent need to "decomission" NORAD in a very decisive manner - like blowing it up, trapping many people inside in the process.

This would explain the dead bodies in NORAD when The Project arrive years later, it would explain why they died of any one of a number of virulent diseases. It would explain why NORAD wasn't a nuke target - it's very visibly been decommissioned and everyone at every level of knowledge knows this to be the case.

Maybe if we flip around Hammond and Reeds talks at the meeting. Hammond is the biotech genius who develops the high resolution neural implants. Reed is the tech genius working on mech body parts, highly advanced computer systems, etc.

This would mean that Hammond would arguably have enough knowledge about what was in NORAD to know that the risk of infection is now over (only so long the viruses could have survived without any form of life support). In fact, Hammond could have started out as the evil one and have actually been one of the people working on those viruses, albeit in the very early stage of the project and primarily to gain knowledge and contacts for his main focus on hi-res neural implants. Why would he want such things - not sure, need to ponder.

What if it is Reed who appears to be appalled when he learns what Hammond did at NORAD? And Reed is then suspected of creating a computer virus to bring NORAD to its knees. But really it was just the result of a blunder - Reed actually hacked in to get tech that could help with 'restoring' his son and inadvertently crashed a computer system that was used to monitor for virus outbreaks within NORAD, setting off a chain of events that eventually leads to the outbreak and bombing of NORAD to contain it.

The lines between Hammond and Reed would be very blurry. As we learn more about the characters we see that what initially appeared to be an evil trait was a mere artifact of a good intention, but then on further investigation the good intention was just a smokescreen for an evil deed, and so on. Like tumbling down a rabbit hole whilst flipping a coin. Only when standing back and seeing the bigger picture do things start to make sense and the sands of time show trends in the actions of both men that reveal their true nature (but not the core nature of Reed, obviously, he has everyone fooled).

[Rman Virgil]

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Wow, aubergine, you are coming at this like a seasoned novelist. The material is surely evolving into an outstanding backstory... & more than that. I mentioned it already but I'm surely convinced now with these latest set of propositions, scenarios & character developments, that there is the makings of a compelling Sci Novel that I'm very, very, tempted to try to write. I'm giving it some serious consideration. A satirical Sci Fi apocalyptic adventure novel. Exciting to me, in truth.

But let me get to a few specifics...(Twitter-like 'cause of my tech constraints of the moment which I begin to rectify l8r today & through Fri.)

* The article on the Amondawa tribe & the contruct of time is indeed a gem. Coincidently, in chapter 5 of the novella "Crude in Sur Amerika", a character has a shamanic vision wherein I try to convey such a mindset. When I re-draft it I'll have the Amondawa in my minds eye. Thank you for the tip.

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[Rman Virgil]

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* I like your new NORAD scenario best. I'm gonna run with it.

* I better understand now your use of the diffs between psychopath & sociopath in constructing the Reed character & the dynamic with Hammond. I also like your re-configuration of Hammond and the reversals with Reed's character. Gonna run with all that too.

* Your right about DSM*, ASPD & Big Pharma. I should know better. Couple years back I stumbled on 2 works that set me off on an investigative trail... which is still ongoing.

* "Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America" Title speaks for itself.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomy_of_an_Epidemic

* "The Emperor's New Drugs: the Antidepressant Myth"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Drugs

Big Pharma has been very selective in what double-blind studies they've published & submitted to the FDA for approval. Took court orders under the Freedom of Information Act to get what they held back. Turns out that 75 percent of the antidepressant effect was also produced by placebos... & that's just the tip of it.

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* DSM - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association.
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[Merowingg]

All very nice Gentlemen

I admit it is hard for me to follow. I thought in the pas it is me who posted long posts

Rman, Sir, again, can I be given directions what kind of woman was I to create? And here origin too? Some of this stuff here is not easy for me as there are many things I do not know and dont remember always. In terms of Warzone

[Rman Virgil]

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* I know Mero, there's a ton of material here. One of the 1st things I have to do over the weekend, once I get my primary tech sys up & running again, is work on v.0.02 of the Grand Timeline incorporating all this new material.

* As for creating John Hammond's adaptive mother, let's work backwards from what we have so far.

* John Hammond is orphaned & becomes a ward of the state at age 4.

* We have not yet created the circumstances of this event or his biological roots. We can at any time. You, me or aubergine. Let's set it aside for now.

* John Hammond is adapted at age 5 and grows up to be an extraordinary man. His adaptive mother plays a huge role in that outcome and she does it as a single mom. That's all we have.

* So what we don't have: her age, entire background (personal & professional), her looks, her name, her personality, her values, her goals, her beliefs, her motives for wanting to be an adoptive, single parent, her circle of relations (family, friends, professional associtates), how she carries herself, how she speaks, does she have a sense of humor, etc.. You get the gist. Not all this has to be created, of course. Just enough to make her real, 3D and the plausible mother of an extraordinary man.

* Does that make sense ?

* I'll be happy to answer any more questions, the best I can.

* Throw whatever ideas you come up with, Mero, into the pot here and we can talk about it, work it out over time. Which is what we've been doing in shaping Reed and Hammond. Join the fun !
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[Merowingg]

Ok Sir, I understand

Meanwhile something I believe you will like and may inspire you and make your thoughts go beyond normal Run Boy Run is the continuation of Iron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmc21V-zBq0

Video is simply beautiful according to me.

[aubergine]

More info on sea level rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4EZpWdVTj8