hypothetical cheating

[Originway]

The code was not intended for the new synch mechanism implemented in 3.x . They would need to rewrite it from the base. Sure it prevent power cheat, but there is a lot more possibilities around. Some new one that where not in 2.3.9 .

That's sad, but it's the life.. there is games and there is cheaters. There is very few you can do about it. I'm just here to break the myth that you can't cheat in 3.1 . That's totally false. It still possible.

tell us this, is it possible without changing the source code? can a normal 3.1.0 download be used to cheat?

[bendib]

This little talk just gave me yet another idea how I could cheat. But I'm kind enough to keep all that for me until now

Why not share it with us developers, at least, so we can fix it?

Maybe because I can't play that game because it crash so I don't give a *** .
Maybe because I would require a total rewrite of the entire code and I know you don't have the manpower for this.
Maybe when I not only report a bug but also give you the patch, you don't even care merging it.
Maybe I already told cyp about some issues on IRC anyway.
Maybe many of your changes actually facilitate cheats instead of hindering it.

Maybe it's a bit of the five.

1. There are others in the universe. Others play Warzone that is newer than 2011. If you care about them, care about the 3.1 base.
2. No, it wouldn't. I highly doubt that. Give me the details and I'll bet you 20 bucks I can fix it for Legacy.
3. ...No argument here...
4. Keep in mind most of the known methods to cheat would create desync. I recall finding a few really obscure ones myself, but what is given is not a unit advantage. Unfortunately, I forgot them, or I'd fix them.

Iluvalar, please just tell the devs (and me if you feel like it), because it'll help the entire community. I'm sorry the game crashes for you, but that's not anyone here's fault. I share your frustration, and more complaints you don't have, but I recognize the important of making it excruciatingly difficult to cheat.

[Iluvalar]

The code was not intended for the new synch mechanism implemented in 3.x . They would need to rewrite it from the base. Sure it prevent power cheat, but there is a lot more possibilities around. Some new one that where not in 2.3.9 .

That's sad, but it's the life.. there is games and there is cheaters. There is very few you can do about it. I'm just here to break the myth that you can't cheat in 3.1 . That's totally false. It still possible.

tell us this, is it possible without changing the source code? can a normal 3.1.0 download be used to cheat?

Not in a way I know about.

Why is that topic called "hypothetical" cheating ? Thrust is in the air...

[aubergine]

So, let me get this right... In 3.1 deterministic code is used -- that is to say the game actions that result from user actions will always have same outcome, so if one network peer starts doing things differently the game host machine will spot the data doesn't match.

Even if a user edited their WZ, the host machine would still detect that it was doing unexpected stuff, because the data wouldn't match.

I'm struggling to see what the cheat is, and the fact you won't tell even the devs, makes me think there is no cheat. Otherwise, why would you not tell them so they can fix it? That would just be retarded if you could see a problem and not tell them, as that only ensures the problem will persist longer term, unless of course you plan to cheat and thus wouldn't want the problem fixing? Maybe you are a cheater and don't want to give away the secret as you might loose games? If that's not the case, tell the devs what the problem is, otherwise people will just assume your cheating from now on.

[Retributer]

"hypothetical cheating" ?
Mmh. I said I thought he might have cheated, but I don't think so anymore. I tried rushing twin-mg while creating the biggest army I could, and I got almost what the guy had. I've just been surprised by his army's size, but now I understand how he did.
When he told me he was using all 5 factories I said "did you collect all the barrels of the map or what ?" and his answer ('yeah, kind of") was a bit vague, so maybe he didn't collect that much barrels and I just lost track of time while spending my resources on useless researches/structures, so maybe his army was normal after all.

[Iluvalar]

Even if a user edited their WZ, the host machine would still detect that it was doing unexpected stuff, because the data wouldn't match.

That's where you are wrong. "Expectancy" is not a concept known by the game. It doesn't "expect" anything. Well YES ! it expect that my GUI doesn't contain illegals moves. It rely on that.

Otherwise, why would you not tell them so they can fix it? That would just be retarded if you could see a problem and not tell them, as that only ensures the problem will persist longer term

Cheating is a major problem in any online game. I'm not creating it ! What really should be done is an incredible rewrite by someone who is fully aware of such cheats possibilities. I know they don't have the man power for that. 3.1 is better than 2.3, but it still leak like a sieve.

unless of course you plan to cheat and thus wouldn't want the problem fixing? Maybe you are a cheater and don't want to give away the secret as you might loose games? If that's not the case, tell the devs what the problem is, otherwise people will just assume your cheating from now on.

That's it ! I'm a cheater ! I plan to cheat on a game that crash on my computer... make sens !

[aubergine]

That's it ! I'm a cheater ! I plan to cheat on a game that crash on my computer... make sens !

That's really the only thing that makes sense, otherwise you'd obviously let the devs know about the problems so they can look to ways to fix them. There's no legitimate reason not to let the devs know, is there?

[NoQ]

Normally when somebody finds an exploit he does the following:

1. Demonstrate an actual exploit code to the devs.
2. If devs don't fix the security hole in a certain amount of time, publish it, so that they are forced to provide a fix.

... right?

[Originway]

Not in a way I know about.

Why is that topic called "hypothetical" cheating ? Thrust is in the air...

so he says you need to modify things to cheat
that means it is not client side unless they modify whatever he is talking about
this is not a proven cheat

[Iluvalar]

There is tons of them. Why I'd do it for a game I can't PLAY ? Why are you asking ME to details and search everything ?

There is no legitimate reason why YOU do not let the devs know. Every single part of the GUI would need to be split from the options. Which require a total rewriting of the code. To fit the synch paradigm which I personally believe is a mistake.

Do it YOURSELF ! If you are not aware of it, there is nothing I can do. Unless I invest time in something I don't feel like it worth it.

[aubergine]

I'm guessing a modified version of WZ on game host (player 0) can be used to allow player 0 to cheat at the expense of everyone else in the game. So I'd avoid any matches with Iluvalar as it seems what he's doing here is boasting about the fact that he can cheat and you can't, and he intends to have fun taunting the devs and everyone else about the fact.

@Iluvalar -- Every time I find something wrong, I do let the devs know. The question here is why don't you?

Also, there are longer term plans to re-do the GUI, or are you waiting to gloat after that work has been done by announcing "there are still loads of cheats, oh, and I'm still not going to tell you where they are". That's just sick and twisted, you need to find a new game community mate.

[Originway]

I spent the last 40 minutes looking for this thread and I finally found it!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8885

To my knowledge, there is no MOD that permit a specific player to be able to read power of others in an UNFAIR way.

This is done trough source code modifications. And YES I have such build.

Iluvalar is often heard bragging he catches cheats by using a mod to view user info..

I tried to point out this was cheating but he ignores all help makes you wonder what else is in his bag of tricks

Claiming folks are cheating by cheating to catch them is Not GOOD

so we know he can cheat if he wants but he should make patches to fix the cheats then he can say he fixed them

[aubergine]

He won't make patches or tell devs about the exploits because then he won't be able to cheat.

[NoQ]

There is tons of them. Why I'd do it for a game I can't PLAY ? Why are you asking ME to details and search everything ?

aubergine cannot run 3.2 (due to unavailability of mac nightlies), yet he's one of the biggest contributors to 3.2 around, blindly proposing fixes that are accepted and documenting stuff he cannot test. He cares and can't help speaking. You say you don't care, yet still can't help speaking (:

[Iluvalar]

He won't make patches or tell devs about the exploits because then he won't be able to cheat.

If you were playing with me more often, you know that I added an handicaping "cheat code" to the NRS mod that reduce the power production of the player. And that I'm happily use it as soon as I feel my team have an advantage or someone in the opposite team leave. That's just the opposite of a cheater.

Why would I make a cheat detector in my mods that make the cheaters loosing TWICE if I was planning to cheat myself ?

I even had a cheat build during months where I left the message "*Iluvalar enabled the cheat cods*" on. So when I was actually trying to cheat, it was sending a public message to everyone. Why the hell would I leave that message on if I was planning to "cheat" in an actual match ? I doesn't make sens.


Anyway, you can accuse me as much as you want, I can't even play in 3.1. And that's the only real reason I'm not interested into investing hours of coding into that.