[DEPRECIATED] Campaign 4 (Old thread)

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Actually, that's exactly what I was planning. Gibbs calling out SitRep stuff instead of the default WZ Voice. And I love the idea of random chatter!

And yes, I'd be happy to discuss weather and battlefield effects. I didn't see much weather when I was in the military, as it was mostly hot sunshine (desert) and the occasional localized sandstorm.

[Rman Virgil]

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Just east of the far northwest corner quadrant the scroll limits need to be extended to allow units entry. My combat group literally gets stuck at the periphery, not able to enter, while the scav IF batteries pound away and I can't control them anymore. 'Course fog of war doesnot dissipate as it should. While my units are stuck at the periphery of the scroll limit, being pounded by IF i'm prevented from engageing, scav combat groups come up the rear to do some more damage while my guys are stuck in the "force field". Not a pretty sight .... or site.

If a positional screen cap would help let me know.
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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Are you talking about the 'Head to North Pass' event (green beacon in the north)? That one has been giving me fits. The Commander should be north of that beacon for 5 seconds to trigger the area expansion. Only the Commander in that area (a little north of the green beacon) can trigger the scroll expansion. That should solve the immediate problem you're having. (At least the scroll area!).

It's a little clunky, so move the Commander around the beacon a bit, bit anywhere north of it should trigger the expand event. Then you can pound the Scavvies back.

[Rman Virgil]

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I'll try that to continue with the level.

But what if, long term, you closed the southern cliff entrance to the quadrant and opened one north of the beacon ? Maybe I'm not understanding your construct...

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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

OH ok I follow you now. That pass (the one immediately west of M1 Base 1B) isn't meant to be used until M4, when the entire map is unlocked. Sorry for the confusion. I had to set the scroll limits that far in order to get the M2 area opened up properly. I'll see about redoing that particular corridor (and what lays beyond it) in the next release so that it shouldn't be accessible until M4.

[Rman Virgil]

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Goth, do you think this may have uncovered a shortcoming in how scroll-limits themselves are designed to work ? Something to document for future ref ?

In entering that southern corridor without a trigger release opening it up, my combat group was caught like a fly in amber (or a force field). With much effort, while being helpless to respond to the pounding, I was able to get almost all my units unstuck from the scroll limit force field with the exception of the commander droid which was eventually destroyed. In reverting back to the previous save, I did avoid entering that corridor.

EDIT: Going way, way, back to one of my very early on (April '99) play throughs of the original campaign I of a sudden recall a similar experience in CAM 2 but because I wasn't being pounded at the same time and the consequences weren't dire I just abandoned the units and continuued the level a little annoyed but in no real worse shape to complete the mission. In future playthroughs I just avoided that scroll limit boundry.
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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I could always add an event and trigger that to open up a little bit if needed. The setScrollParams() function *does* allow me to use variables, and I could definitely fire it off according to need. In fact one of the earlier Cam 4 builds did just that, if the Commander entered the trigger area it would expand the map size appropriately.

In fact, I might revisit that -- why should we simply follow the same paradigm of Cam 1-3's "Area Based" mission clearing? This is a living, breathing world, and the living breathing world does NOT work by areas. It simply exists, and how we use that area is completely up to us. If we wish to travel, we have but to make the journey.

[aubergine]

setScrollParams(), despite being an odd function name, is on the whole quite a decent function. It's main limitation is that you can only define rectangular areas (although this makes sense from a map scrolling perspective).

[Rman Virgil]

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Same scroll limit boundry issue has arisen in the southeast quadrant as in the northwest quadrant. Going were I can and fighting, to see which opens up first and trying to beat the clock.

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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Sorry for the frustration.

I'll take a look and see what could be causing the problem. If this is a gameflow problem I definitely want to know about those, and this is what it appears to be.

You're playing the Contingency-based 3.1_RC3 one, correct?

[Rman Virgil]

Sorry for the frustration.

I'll take a look and see what could be causing the problem. If this is a gameflow problem I definitely want to know about those, and this is what it appears to be.

You're playing the Contingency-based 3.1_RC3 one, correct?

Yes. Contingency based.

Not so much frustrated as a little lost as in I feel I've gone outta sequence. However, I think I have enough time to figure it out. It did make me think of another possibility. Those scav choppers could be used to harrass me away from areas and chase me to desired areas... maybe ?..

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

Ahh, the old Dungeon Master trick in paper-and-pencil Dungeons & Dragons where if you went off-mission you were forced back onto mission one way or another? Mwahaha... good idea.

I am spending this evening (well, night now) reworking *ALL* missions and INTMESSAGES (Beacons) out in FlaME as they'll be used in the game so that the mix-ups don't happen again. I'm also going to pay CLOSE attention to areas of the map that are at the edges of the scroll limits (and those likewise have been added as labels in FlaME) to make sure nobody can get their units stuck again in those areas. I'm also documenting ALL trigger areas as labels too.

This has so far resulted in the addition (by a factor of two or more) the number of beacons the player sees in-game.

It has also resulted in splitting up missions into more easy-to-follow sizes, and is now much more guided. Of course, the player will definitely know if they are going off-mission (there will be benefits as well as consequences), and the decision-making / dynamic gameplay will surely change the face of the campaign as a whole. Two different and diverging paths lead to VERY different outcomes and circumstances. This will be FAR more pronounced after this rework, and for the better.

I've got a LOT to do.

[Rman Virgil]

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It has also resulted in splitting up missions into more easy-to-follow sizes, and is now much more guided. Of course, the player will definitely know if they are going off-mission (there will be benefits as well as consequences), and the decision-making / dynamic gameplay will surely change the face of the campaign as a whole. Two different and diverging paths lead to VERY different outcomes and circumstances. This will be FAR more pronounced after this rework, and for the better.

I've got a LOT to do.

I think the play-testing phase is not just about finding bugs or glitches to perfect. There arise opportunities for new insights that can lead directly to further enhancing the experience of unfolding interactive narrative and the associated gamut of emotions that can be triggered from urgency to fear to redemption to delight.

What you describe here is on the path of full mission branching and different end-games. Cool.

IMHO, creating a new campaign can be one of the greatest challenges in the game: of coherent, fresh, story imagined, then made interactive; multi-craft skill set workload; sustained attention, passion, and time investment, to perfect all the parts and, alas, the whole of it integrated seamlessly.
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[aubergine]

Will the scavs be getting chinook helicopters? I saw some screenies of them, but don't know if they ever got added (it was around the time the scav transport bug started crashing the game). And will Jorzi's quadcopter be making an appearance (maybe to deliver reinforcements)? Would love to see some new aerial units

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I'll look into that, aubergine.