Some changes I'm considering for "Campaign 4" - Opinions?

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I'll check it out tomorrow, I gotta crash for the night

Looks good though.

[ClockWork]

- It's no secret that I'm not all that happy with the "Return to Arizona" mission. I wanted a homage to Pumpkin Studios, and what better way than to use the original Campaign 1 map as they first envisioned it ... but I seem to be suffering from a clear lack of direction with its' implementation, and in doing so I feel it's disrespectful to use that map in such a way. I'm open to any and all good suggestions concerning that map, up to and including not using it at all. If you have a good idea for a mission hub using that map (3-5 missions), please provide a clear and concise description of your idea(s). Even a combination of ideas will be entertained!

do you speak of one of the tutorial maps? I recall there being two tutorial maps, for some reason. So I had an idea;

A scavenger evaded the projects wrath on campaign one. it was bound to happen. Then that scavenger goes a long way, and makes it to the area of campaign two, where you rescue the civilians. It so happens that one of those civilians that that one scavenger. In campaign three, this scavenger assisted in making technologies in the move against Nexus. it was only natural for the bloke, seeing as how this scavengers has survived by wits ends. In the end of things, this scavenger steals your technologies, and begins a new, threatening your project with views and strategies form the inside.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

No, this was the Cam 1 map with the Cam 1 End map to the east (the main New Paradigm base that the player trashes). The mission I came up with for it was called "Paradigm Shift", but I was't happy with it as it stood.

I'd still like for the remaining New Paradigm forces to seek out The Project's help and eventually ally with us, if possible.

It's an interesting idea .. a Scavenger acting as an agent to further his own ends. Sowing discontent, and all that.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

NoQ, thanks so much for making the remix. It looks and behaves very nicely. Exactly how one would expect Alaska to look. And with the successful port of the new features (and the other map features from Urban and Rockies working!) I can add the Pine trees and other little touches.

[Iluvalar]

2.3.9 is dead so it doesn't make sense to do that

Maybe, but 3.1 is not even born that it is already obsolete.

I know that I made (and still do) silly jokes about the developing branch. But I hope it will get better one day. Nevertheless, right here right now, converting some serious work like a campaign into such unstable setting would be most likely a waste of effort. Goth is doing the best move by postponing the conversion to another version as much as possible.

@ Originway: Might even warrant a 2.4 release. Yes, 2.3.9 is still widely used, btw.

Just in case, I still have that github branch : https://github.com/Iluvalar/warzone2100

That contain the "trought cliff" bug fix and some other interesting changes like an experimental new multiplayer synch.

With some help (like mac compiler) It could become a valid candidate. It is fully compatible with 2.3 mods and campaign .

[Rman Virgil]

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A prescient discussion, and conclusion, had in March of 2011: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7582&start=15

Interesting how things come full circle.
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[Goth Zagog-Thou]

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A prescient discussion, and conclusion, had in March of 2011: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7582&start=15

Interesting how things come full circle.
.

I know. To be honest, most of the down time over the past several months was trying various ways to get it working on the new code (3.1), and ending up with breakage at regular intervals (ie, beta11 to rc3) and having to essentially reverse-engineer what went wrong and why.

It's tiresome after 5 rewrites and nothing (still) to show for it aside from some "interesting technical demonstrations".

I still have the "old" code I was working on for Release-15. The "old way" can still be used.

[Rman Virgil]

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I can imagine the frustration. Have to give you props for perservering. For sure well beyond my fortitude under like circumstances. Still hold it will be a luminous achievment when completed. First of its kind in 14 years.
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[Per]

We do not break compatibility between minor releases (eg 2.3.8 to 2.3.9).

Compatibility being broken between alpha or beta releases or snapshot builds is entirely natural and expected as part of a normal development process. If you want to build anything against unstable builds, then you pay the cost in frequent rework. That is why I generally recommend only building mods against stable releases. It is frustrating when 3.1 is taking so long, but this nonetheless remains the case.

Breaking compatibility between major releases is unfortunate, but necessary, to get progress. We simply do not have the manpower to always retain support for the old in addition to making the new. That said, we generally put a lot of effort into backwards compatibility.

[Iluvalar]

"not enough manpower", "not enough manpower"

The staff repeating it seem interesting on a psychological aspect. They use it on anything BUT 3.x , but I'd bet their acute awareness of what manpower can and can't come from some experiences they went trough recently...

I bet they all subconsciously realized that someone in 2010 should have stood up and said that. They try to compensate by trying to say it more often now, but it's never so much appropriate that it would have been back then.


Per, you don't need to justify like that. We all know compatibility breaks are necessary and I guess we all share the same kind of frustration.

[Goth Zagog-Thou]

I'm sorry, Per, I didn't mean to sound complainey or gripey. You guys do the best you can, and we all appreciate the efforts put forth.

It allows for things like the new terrain renderer, and the JS api (which ARE worth the fuss, imo), and the marvelous mods that result (Contingency, Nullbot, and ArtRev).

Anyway, moving right along with the subject of the thread. All of the fixes and additions to the r16-proto line of cam 4 (minus the map splitting) have been ported to the "stable" r14 base.

It means that Mysteryem's features now work on 2.3.9 Warzone, and the outright nagging issue of my old "Devestator" mod (the one with Assault and Twin Assault Lasers) not working has likewise been addressed and fixed. I have some script cleanup that I'm going to apply shortly (sometime today) and then that will be Release-15.

[Originway]

I can try to do the tileset conversion for 2.3

2.3.9 is dead so it doesn't make sense to do that

That's exactly why it does make some sense.

how?
per said that they won't break anything for 3.1 series.
but now I am worried about 3.1 since I read #3830 and vexed said it is on hold again and looking at a 2014 release?

[Cyp]

how?
per said that they won't break anything for 3.1 series.
but now I am worried about 3.1 since I read #3830 and vexed said it is on hold again and looking at a 2014 release?

The 2014 release date is tentative and may be revised once 2014 is reached.

[Iluvalar]

I can try to do the tileset conversion for 2.3

2.3.9 is dead so it doesn't make sense to do that

That's exactly why it does make some sense.

how?
per said that they won't break anything for 3.1 series.

They are developping mainly the master build, which is already in front of the 3.1 series. In other words 3.2 is already around and is already not compatible with 3.1 .

[aubergine]

@Iluvalar - I guess what you are basically saying is that you don't want to update your mods to WZ 3.x branch, and that is the real reason your mods won't work on that branch?