Difficulties with difficulties

[Chuma]

I'm pretty new to the game, and not very good at it, so when I play skirmish, I set the opponents to "easy". But I still get completely crushed. If on the other hand I "cheat", setting the difficulty to easy that way, it is indeed very easy. Are those two different kinds of easy? If not, there seems to be a bug causing the easy opponents to become non-easy.

When I click the "intelligence" button, showing the list of players, they all have the little tank icon which was used for normal difficulty. Does that mean they are at normal difficulty?

Using version 3.1 on Mac OS 10.6.8.

[aubergine]

Being crushed by an EASY AI in skirmish is most likely more due to the way you are building your base, than anything else (but just to be sure, I assume you are using game set-up to set EASY [which is correct] and not the game options menu [which is for campaign, not skirmish]?). Anyway, I'd recommend watching what NullBot AI does -- go in to cheat mode at start of game, open debug menu and switch to the enemy NullBot player then watch how it builds it's base, what it researches, and so on. You'll notice that it starts with things like factories and research labs, before it builds any power generators or oil derricks, which is really important because that allows it to start getting better tanks faster. If you build HQ, power gens and derricks first, you lose a lot of research and production time, giving the enemy an advantage over you.

Regarding the intelligence display, do you mean the little tank to the left of the player names? If so, that is just indicating that you can't see what they are building. When you get a satellite uplink built later in game, you'll notice that it gets replaced with an image showing which unit they last produced - as you get to know the game better, you'll recognise what weapons, etc., they are using and can use that information to work out how to defend against their next attack.

Also, there is another tank icon on the intelligence screen, often next to a power (lightning bolt) icon. If you have a unit selected, you can click that other tank button to transfer ownership of the unit to an ally (and the power icon to transfer some power to an ally).

[Chuma]

I did notice just now that the little tank icon gets replaced by something, but I didn't know what. Well, that clears that up.

It's probably true that I need to work on my build order. So thanks for the advice on that as well.

Still, the main question remains: Is there supposed to be a difference between the easy setting in the game setup and the easy setting reached by cheating? Because when I do it, there's definitely a big difference.

[aubergine]

If you're playing against Nexus AI, and you cheat, Nexus also cheats -- so you don't gain much of an advantage by cheating against Nexus.

[zydonk]

A good way to get the feel of a game like WZ is to play the early stages of campaign mode, where you will learn bit by bit how to build your base and defend it, then how to organise attacks. Check also the "options/game options" dialog in the start screen. You can adjust difficulty level here (even after playing WZ for years I don't know how this setting relates to the settings available ingame).

Otherwise, start small and be content with improved survival rates. WZ is more about gameplay than simply winning - which means only that it's time to start a new bout. Finally, in sk especially, study how the AI behaves and learn to exploit its weaknesses and cope with its strengths.

[aubergine]

The difficulty setting under the options menu relates to the campaign and not skirmish games.

More info: https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/disp ... lty+Levels

[NoQ]

(yeah, and difficulty cheats have nothing to do with AI difficulty)

[Chuma]

So what do the difficulty cheats do?

[zydonk]

The difficulty setting under the options menu relates to the campaign and not skirmish games.

More info: https://warzone.atlassian.net/wiki/disp ... lty+Levels

Good to know - explains why I always find campaign missions hell on earth!

[p0l1z1]

On this subject, I have a question about the highest difficulties.

We experienced a huge difference between 2.3.9 with max level and 3.1 insane AI. In 2.3.9, it was almost impossible to beat the AI when maxed, but in 3.1, we have to but more insane AI than players to get an interesting game ...

I know that in 3.1 insane AI basically get double resources and a "deity" vision. How was it calculated in 2.3.9 ?

Note : we use nexus in 2.3.9, and first nexus then nullbot in 3.1. We usually play with high oil.

[aubergine]

Nexus cheats much more heavily than NullBot. In fact, the only cheat NullBot ever uses is deity cheating (it can see all units on map).

Nexus, on the other hand, gives itself free power and random free researches. The researches in particular can give Nexus a huge advantage, especially those relating to new vehicle bodies, weapons, etc. viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8969&hilit=nexus

Oh, and the next release of 3.1 includes a temporary fix for log-jamming, so you'll probably notice NullBot getting a whole lot more powerful

[p0l1z1]

I thought that the doubled income was automatic, assuming from this sentence here :

AIs should only use [power cheating] on HARD or INSANE difficulty settings (although on INSANE you already get double power so shouldn't need to).

In other words, do I have to manually code the doubled income in my AI to become standard ? ^^

But even with nexus, the AI seems much more powerfull in 2.3.9 than in 3.1. Has it been nerfed ? Is it because of the reforming of the API system ? (in witch case I would not complain )

Anyway, it's just curiosity. Soon I will release my own AI and it will beat any human player easily even without cheat at all

[NoQ]

In 2.3.9, it was almost impossible to beat the AI when maxed

Sorry to disappoint you ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Rr5Fr9Zrw

on INSANE you already get double power

I tried to verify this statement several times but never noticed anything like that. Does anybody have an actual proof?

Has it been nerfed ?

Power cheating has been removed, research cheating hasn't.

[aubergine]

I've never personally checked whether INSANE doubles power production. If someone wants to do that then maybe also check what the value of powerType is (the base production per minute per derrick before any power research / modules are applied).

@p0l1z1 looking forward to your AI If you haven't already, consider setting up a github.com or sourceforge.com account for hosting your code - you'll find lots of other warzone devs and artists using those two places, and will be able to follow their work and have them follow yours, etc. If you get an account on github, I live here: https://github.com/aubergine10

[p0l1z1]

Sorry to disappoint you ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Rr5Fr9Zrw

Yeah ok it's technically possible ^^ But we don't play multiplayer vs AI to rush in 5 min, especially on warzone.

Ok, I just checked with my AI in a game with a player and my AI in medium, hard and insane. All the power gathered is exactly the same. So maybe this page should be updated ? Or at least clarified.

Power cheating has been removed, research cheating hasn't.

Ok thanks. It must be the reason of the difficulty gap. Do you know exactly how is the research cheat is applied ?

@aubergine: Yeah I will set up a github account as soon as my AI is at least usable. Thanks for encouragements By the way, is there a page where all the AI done yet are listed ? Or do we have to browse the forum for that ? (miss the addon page )